OT: Full body scan

Here's link to article in ProPublica about what the public may NOT be aware of in airport full body scans:
http://tinyurl.com/5smw2y5
Personally, they can grope me all they want; I'm not going through that thing, and I hope NG members will think twice before exposing themselves, and particularly exposing
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Sorry, hit wrong key...
should have read: "...and particularly exposing YOUNG CHILDREN!!!
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

You didn't finish your sentence. I assume you were going to say "exposing private parts" or "gonads" or similar.
Having just returned from a business trip to the LA area and Seattle, I actually did not see a functioning body scanner at any of the airport security areas I travelled through (YYZ, YVR, SEA, LAX) and was not asked to submit to any that may have been out of view. I was not given ANY pat-down after passing through the metal-detectors at any of the above airports (it probably helped that I had no metal on me to elicit a response from the almighty Security Arch).
There have been a few times many months ago where I was asked to go through a milli-meter wave body scanner, and I refused - opting for the body pat-down, which I will continue to choose to do in the future.
Its not so much because of possible health concerns of these scanners so much as I think it's an unreasonable search and invasion of privacy.
And what's more, I say that the reason for these body scans is to look for and intercept the movement of wealth (money, bank notes, negotiable securities, gem stones) that a passenger may have on their body, as well as drugs, and NOT to look for dangerous or explosive devices.
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:31:07 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

I don't fly much any more, maybe once a year, so I don't worry about it. A few weeks ago I went through the scan in Boston.
My connecting flights were in Dublin and both coming and going, I was given the pat down. It was not a big deal either, I did not feel invaded at all. Maybe these guys did an abbreviated version, but there certainly was no intrusion of my privates. My wife uses a wheelchair in the airports and is always treated with the utmost respect both in security and boarding.
What surprised me though, was the need to go through security at the connecting airport. I never had to do that before. Coming home, we went through US customer in Dublin so it was a fast getaway on arrival.
If I few a couple of times a week, I'd avoid the scanners for sure. No one should be subjected to that much X-ray.
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On 11/1/2011 7:59 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I understand you get far less radiation from these scanners than from the flight itself. Flight crews get a lot of exposure and I had not heard of an epidemiological study linking their jobs to cancer so I googled and found this:
"Occupational studies of aircrew in civil or military aviation did not receive much attention until the beginning of this decade. Since 1990, a number of epidemiological studies has been published on the cancer risk among flight personnel. Their results are equivocal: elevated cancer risks have been observed in some studies, but not in others. The exposure situation for pilots and flight attendants is unique with respect to several factors and particularly in that cosmic rays contribute substantially to their cumulative radiation dose. The average annual doses received are relatively low, however, and commonly range between 3 and 6 mSv. Results of epidemiological studies are presented as well as information on planned studies."
I'm more concerned about ct scans and x-rays that I get more frequently as I get older.
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On 11/2/2011 9:26 AM, Frank wrote:

The point being made by the Propublica article and most of the posters is that the scanners are being allegedly monitored and maintained to specifications ONLY by the manufacturer, with no oversight or verification from any third party agency or group. If the manufacturer is diligent and honest, your first sentence is completely valid. However, there is no way to know.
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There were well-documented reports that the scanners were emitting something like 10x the radiation than the theoretical models released to the public showed. An "oops! decimal in the wrong place! my bad." type of explanation was provided. How convenient.
R
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On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:31:07 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

A few years ago (1997-1998) I flew Sacramento - Newark every 3-4 weeks. Once, I got randomly selected for a "dump search".
While taking my ticket and luggage, the girl looked at her screen, then at me, then to a security guard. She told me I had been selected, then the guard pulled my checked bags off the stand and put them behind the counter. Then he grabbed my carry on (a large leather breifcase and computer backpack). They put orange stickers on my checked luggage the size of a basketball. Then they escorted me to the front of the security scanner, carrying my carry-on bags. When we got through the scanner, they dumped the entire contents of both my carry ons on the table, in full view of everybody else, and went through every piece, piece by piece. Then they made ME repack it all, again while everybody else watched. THen they sat with me in the terminal until pre-boarding. They walked me in first, even before the pre-boarders, and watched me sit down and put my seatbelt on. They stayed until the rest of the passengers started boarding. She told me that she HAD to watch me board first, and make sure that I didnt get off the plane.
Go figure.
-Zz
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I went to visit a friend in another city not that long after 9/11. I brought my toolbag with me because she'd mentioned that she had some minor issues in her apartment that apparently the management couldn't or wouldn't fix (light switches not working, that kind of thing.) While I was there an uncharacteristically epic snowstorm hit the area in which I was living (only one other has compared in the 12 years or so I've been around here) I ended up being stuck there for a whole week, when I'd originally planned on just a long weekend. So when I finally got a flight back home (nobody would even rent me a car one- way when they found out where I was planning on going, so I just had to wait until the airports opened up again) my luggage consisted of basically a suitcase with a trash bag in it filled with all my dirty laundry, as I'd washed my clothes once while there but by the time I left the only clean clothes I had were the ones I was wearing. Since there was a small toolbag in there with the usual electrician's stuff, of course my suitcase was selected for extra attention. I pity the poor bastard that had to do that, but then again, the way we do airport security here in the US is the main reason why the distance that I'm willing to drive to avoid flying has steadily increased over the years...
nate
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I think your wife is an exception. Decades of conditioning to be passive and let the authorities handle it has got most of the vigilante mindset out of the majority of the American public, at least the subset that can afford to travel by air. Most people figure out real quick that getting into a fight with someone even if you didn't start it is going to cause you more legal trouble than it's worth. Unfortunately.
Personally I wouldn't mind if "he started it, I just finished it" was a valid defense... world would be a much more polite place. Maybe it's just the moving around I've done over the years but people do seem ruder than I remember them being as a kid.
nate
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I wrote:

================== http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VENTURA_AIRPORT_SECURITY
Nov 3, 6:42 PM EDT
Judge tosses Jesse Ventura's airport scans lawsuit
ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) -- A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura in which he sought to challenge the use of full-body scans and pat-downs at airport checkpoints.
Ventura sued the Department of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration in January alleging that the scans and pat-downs violated his right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizure.
U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson ruled Thursday that the court lacked jurisdiction.
Ventura claimed that the titanium hip implanted in him in 2008 sets off metal detectors and that agents previously used hand-held wands to scan his body. He says he was subjected to a body pat-down after an airport metal detector went off last November.
Ventura's attorney says Ventura will comment Friday outside the St. Paul federal courthouse.
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I wrote:

================ http://news.yahoo.com/ventura-miffed-court-says-hes-off-mexico-174718110.html
Ventura, miffed by court, says he's off to Mexico
ST. PAUL, Minnesota (AP) Former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura is so upset by the dismissal of his airport security lawsuit that he threatened Friday to apply for dual citizenship so he can spend more time in his beloved Mexico or run for president of what he labeled "the Fascist States of America."
Ventura, also a former wrestling star, sued the U.S. government in January, alleging that airport scans and pat-downs amounted to unreasonable search and seizure. A district judge threw out his lawsuit Thursday, ruling it should have been filed in a Circuit Court of Appeals.
Ventura has said a titanium hip implanted in him in 2008 sets off metal detectors and that agents previously used hand-held wands to scan his body. He said he was subjected to a body pat-down after an airport metal detector went off last November. Ventura said he hasn't flown since and won't fly commercially again.
Outside the federal courthouse in St. Paul, with a crew from his "Conspiracy Theory" cable TV show filming, Ventura said he hadn't decided whether to continue pressing his lawsuit. He said he wanted to make his case before a jury, not a panel of judges.
Ventura, a political independent who served one term as governor, teased that he might have to run for president to change the policy and a court system he regards as broken.
Moments later, he vowed to apply for Mexican citizenship so he can live there more months of the year.
The former Navy SEAL said he had lost his patriotism.
"I will never stand for a national anthem again. I will turn my back and I will raise a fist," he said.
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I wrote:

Airports continue to be black holes where the courts fear to tread. Or (in this case) they've been legally, legislatively shut out of the process by your elected congress, your elected senate and your elected president (Bush probably in this case).
What happened to your right to due process?
============== http://www.infowars.com/ventura-decries-fascist-america-after-judge-tosses-tsa-case /
The suit was thrown out because Congress set up the law so that all such challenges must be brought directly in Circuit Courts of Appeals, wrote U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson.
They said they dont have jurisdiction, Ventura told reporters. Well my question is if the federal courts dont have jurisdiction over a constitutional question then who the hell does?
Speaking to the Alex Jones Show today, Ventura spoke of his fury about how an American citizen was not even allowed to go to court to defend the Bill of Rights, adding that from now on he would refer to the U.S. as the Fascist States of America and would refuse to stand for the national anthem.
I want a trial by jury. They tell me I can have a jury decide my fate! Ventura said, refering to the judge who dismissed the case as a coward. If given a jury, I will win, he added.
Ventura said the fact that he would have to go to the lengths of becoming President simply to have his day in court with the TSA was ridiculous. Asked by a reporter whether he was planning to run, Ventura responded, Im thinking about it.
I will not, in a free country, be treated like a criminal, said Ventura, adding that he and his wife intended to apply for Mexican citizenship.
Referring to 9/11, Ventura questioned the reasoning behind the whole war on terror. George Bush said we were attacked because they were jealous of our freedoms. So we take away our freedoms so they wont be jealous anymore? he said. I think theyre winning.
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**Here's the link to a petition I just signed demanding an end to this. Someone posted it on the ProPublica feedback to the article.
===
"The backscatter machines radiate you on the outside, and the millimeter-wave machines radiate you on the inside.
Please opt out.
Please sign the petition:
http://www.senatenj.com/index.php/doherty/tsa-petition/sign-the-petition-help-stop-invasive-tsa-screening/7149 ".
===
HB
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consistency. There is relatively little backlash against irradiating airline travelers, but don't EVEN discuss irradiating food to help lessen the likelihood of e.coli, etc. and all heck breaks loose.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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