OT: For the computer gurus

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I see.
So, even though Linus copied the design of UNIX when he wrote Linux. And UNIX was designed at AT&T, it's incorrect to say that Linux was designed by AT&T.
Learn something every day.
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Dan Espen

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He didn't copy Unix. He used Unix together with work done by others to create a new operating system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux
The creation of Linux Linus Torvalds in 2002In 1991, in Helsinki, Linus Torvalds began a project that later became the Linux kernel. It was initially a terminal emulator, which Torvalds used to access the large UNIX servers of the university. He wrote the program specifically for the hardware he was using and independent of an operating system because he wanted to use the functions of his new PC with an 80386 processor. Development was done on MINIX using the GNU C compiler, which is still the main choice for compiling Linux today (although the code can be built with other compilers, such as the Intel C Compiler).[citation needed]
As Torvalds wrote in his book Just for Fun,[10] he eventually realized that he had written an operating system kernel. On 25 August 1991, he announced this system in a Usenet posting to the newsgroup "comp.os.minix.":[11]
Hello everybody out there using minix -
I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things)."
If that equates to Linux was designed at Bell Labs, then anything is possible. For starters, it's clear he didn't directly copy Unix, he used Minx which was itself based on Unix as a starting point. But let's assume for a minute that he did use Unix as his starting point. So, let's say I take a Rinnai water heater apart, analyze it, then construct my own product HotWasser, that has similar features, plus a lot of my own unique additons to transform it, make it better. So, it's correct to say Rinnai designed HotWasser?
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Right, he didn't copy UNIX. He copied the design of UNIX.
I'm well aware of the history.
You seem to prefer the phrase "He used Unix". That means something very different to me, but whatever.
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Dan Espen

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The issue isn't specifically what Torvalds did or didn't use. It's that the statement that Bell Labs designed Linux is false. It's like saying Henry Ford designed the Chevrolet because the Chevy has some of the same features, design elements that Ford used.
And again, from Torvalds book, he set out to build a terminal emulator, not to copy Unix:
As Torvalds wrote in his book Just for Fun,[10] he eventually realized that he had written an operating system kernel. On 25 August 1991, he announced this system in a Usenet posting to the newsgroup "comp.os.minix.":[11]
"Hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons) among other things)."
That sure doesn't sound like a process of copying Unix from Bell Labs. How could you set out to copy Unix and only later realize that you'd created an OS kernel?
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The only person that said anything close to "AT&T designed Linux" is the person that posted:
"Yep. And what you end up with is a knock-off of a 40-year old operating system designed by a money-losing division of your local telephone company."
Your desire for arguing the fine points of "design" vs. "copy" vs. "implement" vs. a bunch of other terms is of little interest to me.
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Dan Espen

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Really dear? Yet here you are posting again.
You sure did jump on the AT&T bandwagon too, or was it someone who hijacked your puter that posted this:
"So, even though Linus copied the design of UNIX when he wrote Linux. And UNIX was designed at AT&T, it's incorrect to say that Linux was designed by AT&T. "
And yes, one more time, Linux was not designed by AT&T. Still no answer to the question about similar developments. Like if I look at say a Rinnai tankless and then design a new tankless, calling it HotWasser, using features and ideas from Rinnai as well as a bunch of other tankless products, is it OK to say Rinnai designed the HotWasser product? Would you be arguing about whether Rinnai was profitable at the time Rinnai designed the HotWasser? Or would the right answer simply be Rinnai did not design it period?
You also completely ignore the sources that I posted referencing what Torvalds did that outline a far different development of Linux than Torvald "copying" Unix.
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| | | | [Christmas presents]
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On 02-05-2013 12:37, Dan Espen wrote:

No, he designed his own that worked like Unix.
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Wes Groleau

It seems a pity that psychology should have
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 00:25:09 -0500, Wes Groleau

That depends on what your definition of "design" is.
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Dan Espen wrote:

A problem you own, not us.

AT&T Laboratories WAS a money-losing division of AT&T.

Evidently.
I'm glad. Your conversion reduces even further the less-than-1.2% penetration of Linux into the desktop market (compared to 90%+ for Windows).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
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The problem here is that since Linux was *not* designed at AT&T, there isn't even a clear point in time to reference. Linux is a kernel that was designed in Finland by a guy named Torvalds in 1991. It uses features of Unix which was originally developed at AT&T's Bell Labs in 1969. It also uses features of other OS's that were derivatives of Unix. In commercial application Linux went on to be an open source project with many people's hands in it. How that equates to "AT&T designed Linux" is beyond me.
In the 90s when Linux was developed, Bell Labs was then the product development and research division of Lucent Technologies. Lucent was profitable and successful at the time. But what any of that has to do with Linux, what kind of product Linux is, if it's any good or not, again does not compute.
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On 2/4/2013 1:40 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

But "religion" (having a belief system) isn't a bad thing. Its when certain parts of the brain that handle reasoning are turned off for some reason and the belief system turns into a mindless extremist position. You see that here with people calling each other stupid and acting like 10 year olds after they dig their toes in knowing that their extremist position is the only way.
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On 2/3/13 7:54 AM, Meanie wrote:

Yep. Buy a MacBook.
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So you can spend twice as much for incompatible crap. Kinda like Linux, but even more expensive.
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I don't have a MacBook, but even I know the answer:
"to avoid installing the overbearing bundled software I don't want"
--
Dan Espen

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On 02-05-2013 00:21, Dan Espen wrote:

Unfortunately, Apple is starting to get that way, too. I guess after years of being copied by Microsoft, they decided turn-about is fair play. They even give you a blue screen when they crash. And since Windows no longer crashes daily, it's much harder to tell the difference.
--
Wes Groleau

A pessimist says the glass is half empty.
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I once purchased a used computer and the seller installed the latest operating system, which I did not want. However, I considered that I might want to use it in the future, and since it was installed and legally registered, I was not going to delete it. Instead, I just bought another hard drive, put the blank hard drive in the computer, and installed the OS that I wanted. Eventually I did change to that newer OS, and all I had to do was swap the hard drive. Somer people dont understand that everything installed to a computer, is all on the hard drive. You can change hard drives and have a completely different OS (and other software) on the same computer. They do sell kits to make changing drives real easy too, it's nearly as simple as putting a DVD into a DVD player.
If you buy the computer from a computer store, you should be able to request what OS and other software you want. But if you buy fron Walmart or another retail store, you get what they give you.
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On Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:36:45 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

the computer from the manufacturer - some flavour of Windows - sometimes with the option to upgrade or downgrade.
Buy a custom built and you can specify your OS.
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On 02/03/2013 07:54 AM, Meanie wrote:

www.ubuntu.com
You're welcome!
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