OT: Flex fuel vs regular

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75% of property taxes, and more, is "huge".

Maybe tens of thousands of dollars a year is small to you but that's what 10-12A of prime land can cost. I call it "huge".
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On 9/7/2013 6:18 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Land cost, sure. Btu "10(s) of K$/yr" for taxes only, though? That is some high-priced RE indeed. A few thou for residential or commercial I can see.
Would seem all the more reason the local assessor's office would be eager to ensure they're not being scammed if there is such, though...
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On 9/4/13 10:32 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

Actually, there aren't any "corporations" farming in my area as far as I know. The corporate farms around here are family farms whose owners decided to incorporate for whatever reason. A farmer acquaintance said once the hassle and the cost/benefit ratio about evens out when deciding whether to incorporate. Think of a father/son(s) operation or two or more brothers in an operation. Imagine how much hassle there can be if divorce is involved. That would be one reason to incorporate.
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On 9/4/2013 8:17 PM, Dean Hoffman > wrote:

Most of the midwestern states actually have state law against the "corporate-corporate" farms. There are specific rules for what are allowed.
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On 9/4/13 8:29 PM, dpb wrote:

because it violated the Commerce Clause. It was actually in the Nebraska Constitution. I think another flaw it had was requiring active participation of the principals. That ran against the Americans with Disabilities Act if I recall correctly. I did a quick search but couldn't find any reference to a replacement ban.
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On 9/4/2013 9:10 PM, Dean Hoffman > wrote:

I knew it was up for review; wasn't sure where it stood. That's probably too bad. KS has been talking of trying to revise theirs to avoid possible challenge on similar grounds; not positive anything's happening or not. There's other groups that want to repeal it to allow the Seaboards and that ilk more leeway but their mainly the ones looking to further integrate vertically--_a_bad_thing_for_sure_ in my book.
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On 9/4/13 10:29 PM, dpb wrote:

I know the owners of three of the larger feedlots nearby. Those are owned by family farmers. I don't know about the ownership of the fourth. The one larger hog confinement operation is family owned. There is one larger dairy, ownership unknown. There are a couple confinement chicken operations around. I think those are owned by regular farmers. Ted Turner bought a lot of ground in the Sandhills. That's ranch country with real cowboys, six and eight man football teams, and rodeo arenas next to the high school football fields. The assessors were worried he might put the land into a non profit, non taxable foundation. I haven't heard if he has done anything like that. We do have county zoning rules here. That might be what's keeping the corporations out. I'm not up on the rules so can't say for sure.
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On 9/5/2013 7:10 AM, Dean Hoffman > wrote:

There are at least 30 medium to large (10k to 50k+ head) beef feedlots within a 50 mile radius of which only a couple that I'm aware of are not family owned/operated altho most are S-corp or LLC's simply owing to that being the only reasonable organization given tax and liability law. There's one out-of-state ownership dairy calf finishing facility just east of us a couple of miles that was sold and converted from feedlot to this operation in June that's a Minnesota-based large dairy operation. The former owners of it were a FL-based corporation.
Our county passed a local ordinance banning the confinement hog operations when Seaboard built the packing plant about 45 mi SW of town in OK panhandle (there was/is a beef packing plant here). There are quite a number of hog facilities in the surrounding counties supplying Seaboard; all of which are similar in structure to the beef feedlot operations excepting for the breeding operations that are controlled entirely by Seaboard either as owned or vertically-integrated/operated operations.
I don't have a count on the number of dairies but it's in the teens to twenties I'd estimate in area--a considerable number have moved in over last 10-20 yr owing to the added restrictions and costs in AZ and CA from whence they came. Not a single poultry operation I'm aware of within 200 miles--closest area heavy with them is in AR and E OK.
Turner also bought sotoo 30,000A spread in Red Hills country two counties two to our east--he threatened the same thing there but again hasn't so far. At this point he's converted their cow-calf operation to bison and has done good job in maintaining/improving range quality and all so no complaints (yet, anyway). Who knows what will be the end result, though, altho it does appear he's backed off at least some after actually having had "boots on the ground" experience. I've never actually run across him as it's 60-70 mi over there and while he was reportedly around a fair amount early on over there, I've heard of no sightings in several years, now.
We've got a mix--there are both some larger communities but there's small town 8-man football here, too. The nearest 6-man is in the TX panhandle and W TX, though; KS and OK don't have any that I'm aware of, anyway.
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Wouldn't it be nice if we all just paid the same taxes without worrying about what kind of legal scam, I mean legal business model, we elected to use.
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On 9/5/2013 10:01 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: ...

Well, that ship sailed 200+ yr ago...
But, in reality, no; there are reasons for differences; some better than others but there are reasons.
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regular:

Indeed. An in my case, I wouldn't pay anything extra for it either.
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The problem with alcohol based fuel is that it requires upgraded components that prevent corrosion and that it has a significantly reduced energy content when compared to gasoline, which translates into much lower gas mileage. All vehicles sold in the US for the past decade or more can tolerate up to 10% alcohol. FlexFuel vehicles can tolerate up to 15%.
When you look at the lousy mileage and the fact that alcohol use drives up the cost of food (most alcohol is derived from corn), it becomes obvious that mandating its use is a prime example of government stupidity. That's also why you also won't find many 15% gas stations.
FlexFuel vehicles run just fine on 100% gas. I wouldn't pay a dime more for a FF vehicle, but I wouldn't not buy a vehicle just because it was.
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Yes, that's gently under stated. I have read that it takes as much fuel to make the ethanol, as what is saved. So, for gasohol we have no energy benefit, but higher prices and more damage to engines.
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On 9/2/2013 10:36 AM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

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On 9/2/2013 12:22 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

into consideration the increased cost of food. Only benefit is feeding the greed of large agribusiness and their political lackeys.
I would not pay one extra cent for a flex fuel vehicle and if I had one would not pay more than half the cost of regular gas for E85 since mileage will be nearly that much less.
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On 9/2/13 12:33 PM, Frank wrote:

Inflation adjusted prices for food crops are fairly low. Chart here: http://tinyurl.com/l8t2e2c The last couple years have been unusually good for farmers in my area. Cash corn prices got close to $7/bushel this summer for a short time. People in farm related businesses all know the bubble will burst. Ethanol was first sold as gasohol in the mid 70s here in Nebraska. That's the first I saw of it anyhow.
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Some of the increase from the last couple of years was also tied to weather, to a certain extent. We have had a few ethanol plants closed and mothballed over the last year because of high corn prices. Which is sorta ironic when you think about it.
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On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 22:40:29 -0500, Dean Hoffman

and low when the yeild is high, so it all averages out to mediocre profits year over year. I live in a large agricultural area - mostly family farms of 100 to 400 acres - and I know quite a few "comfortable" farmers, a few relatively rich farmers, and a lot os scraping by farmers. When they retire and sell the farm, they are all reasonably well off to quite rich - but the next generation getting into farming is strapped with EXTEMELY high debt.
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On 9/3/13 11:31 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Live poor, die rich. Farmers are similar to royalty. You have to be born one or marry one to be one. A British lady said there is another route to being a royal but I can't remember what it is. Maybe investing lottery winnings into a farm would be another route. The farmers I know all grew up on farms and are taking over as their dads retire. The average farmer in Nebraska is 56 years old. The smaller operations get absorbed into the larger ones. It didn't make economic sense for my brother or I to farm. My parents rented the farm to a neighbor. We're blessed with irrigation here so the drought probably actually helps the farmers' checking accounts.
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On Monday, September 2, 2013 10:22:26 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

There is one helluva lot of energy expended to provide gasoline and/or diesel fuel for automotive and agricultural usage. Somehow people believe all the negative propaganda about alcohol fuels but don't consider the reality of fossil fuel, its discovery, transportation, refining, etc.
I wouldn't doubt that some day the true costs of bringing conventional fuel to consumers will be aired so a true comparison can be made.
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wrote:

That's all a load of crap. The MARKET tells us what the 'True cost" is. If it were not for all the subsidies for ethanol it would not be sold in the US because it costs more per gal then regular fossil fuels. That's how a FREE market works. And Ethanol can't compete in a free market.
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