OT: FACT CHECK: Convention speakers stray from reality

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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Check California's labor laws. It's my understanding (from two of my customers in the state), that it is VERY difficult to fire an employee.
Of course creative employers can get around these restrictions. For example, you have written memoranda, plus a signed consent form from the subject employee, not to imbibe alcoholic beverages while on the job. The employer then bolsters his suspicions by sworn testimony (a priest, a rabbi, and a duck all walk into the company rest-room) attesting to witnessing the accused drinking from a pint bottle of "Anchors Aweigh" rye whiskey.
Hint: In California, it's probably not kosher to require employees to abstain from Marijuana.
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(You misquoted. Here is the correct attribution.)
Conservatives are often just a trajedy away from becoming a liberal, dependant on government handouts. ----------------------end quoted text--------------
People are poor because they are lazy.
Show me an unemployed person and I'll show you a lazy person.
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[message trimmed]

It is very confusing when you put your replies at the top. Makes it hard to tell who said what.
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I'll correct th is message, too.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: FACT CHECK: Convention speakers stray from reality

It is very confusing when you put your replies at the top. Makes it hard to tell who said what.
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And the really sad part is that he only needs to check a simple option in his newsreader to fix the problem
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I know a couple Mormons from the nearby city. Always busy, but never quite make any progress. So, that's at least one exception to your rule.
Some people unemployed due to the Obama economy, some due to medical problems.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
People are poor because they are lazy.
Show me an unemployed person and I'll show you a lazy person.
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There are many like that. Called the Peter Principle. (Not the socalled saint)
See correction below

:)
--
Best regards
Han
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Han wrote:

Uh, the "Bush economy" was splendid. Unemployment less than 5%, no inflation, 24 consecutive quarters of solid economic growth, DJIA above 12,000, and so on.
All this in spite of 9/11, Katrina, and two wars.
Then the Democrats took over Congress in 2006 and everything fell into the ditch.
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It's called a bubble. Then the chickens came home to roost. Things will get better after the elections, guaranteed.
--
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Han
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Han wrote:

I call it a good economy.
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wrote:

Parts of it was good economy. Housing prices became plain silly though as almost everyone qualified for a mortgage.
If you look at the ratio of wages to a house, they stayed the same for a long time. Pick a typical middle class income for a policeman, carpenter, teacher, whatever. As wages went up, the price of a particular house was about 3X the annual wage. Suddenly, the selling price for that same house became 4X or more.
The reason was, anyone could get a mortgage and buy a house with little down payment and affordable monthly payments for the first five years. Oh shit, now I have to pay the real cost? I can't afford that! The mortgage broker got his commission though.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

thats why I blame more people than the banks. Realtors, appraisers, title companies all knew that things were wacky. they all knew what they were selling wasn't worth the price. I refinanced and had an appraiser ask me what amount I needed to get it done. They didn't care, they all got their money on the front end, screw the guy at the back end
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Uh, er. Being Mormon and all, there's a lot of things I don't know about. But, you may wish to reword that?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
They didn't care, they all got their money on the front end, screw the guy at the back end
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wrote:

And the buyers have their share of the blame, too. Had a bunch of friends talk to me about how they knew they couldn't pay it back, but they KNEW that the price was going to keep going up and they would make plenty of money before the balloon payment, etc. You have to have the buyers.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
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Yup. Plenty of blame to spread around, however I pin the biggest share on government for making the ground so fertile that the weeds outran them.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Check the history and effect of the Community Redevelopment and Affordable Housing Act. It was originally passed during the Carter administration, but when the Clinton administration "encouraged" financial institutions to serve the "underserved" community, that the act took off like a rocket.
Just me speaking, but I believe the Democrat's thinking went like this: We need to move more people into the middle class, but how? Well, the middle class is defined, mostly, by people owning their own homes. So if we get more people into home ownership, by definition we've moved many poor people into the middle-class.
The above idea squares with my theory that most problems in society are caused by an upstream liberal solution meant to solve a completely different problem. Examples abound. For examples: homelessness, education, and here, the housing bubble.
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wrote:

Well, in my own defense, I don't think it is a good idea to "give" a mortgage to people who have a high likelihood of NOT repaying a loan. OTOH, many banks and mortgage brokers were thinking along "bubble" ways: If the loan would go sour, there would always be a sucker willing to pay more for that house. But then the bubble burst ...
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Han
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And to the list I would add one very big one, the Federal Reserve. They have God knows how many people monitoring various aspects of the economy. You would surely think that with housing prices doublind and tripling in some places, they woud recognize that their low interest rates were financing a bubble. Yet, the did nothing.
Saw on the news the other day a family in Las Vegas that bought a house for $750K in 2007. It's now worth $340/k and they are still paying the mortgage. Why, I don't know. Bankruptcy would seem a viable option in that case. Besides the FED, the buyer would have to be pretty stupid. Around here, NJ shore, there isn't much new land left. In LV, they have hundreds of miles of desert to build houses forever. That house would be worth $750K here, but no way in hell in LV. But everyone gets caught up in greed and it just becomes a vicous cycle.
Yet, all the Democrats want to do is pretend it's somehow all Bush's fault, which of course is just nonsense. But it's dangerous nonsense, because instead of anayzing what really went wrong, what really lead up to it, etc, if you just rail against everything that Bush and the Republicans and say it's all bad, then you're going to get a very, very bad result. You can see that happening right now in the economy.
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wrote:

There is plenty of blame to go around for the housing bubble. I certainly won't deny that. I just find it curious that people who say they favor individual rights and responsibilities say it is all (or almost all) the Feds fault. But that is behind. We have to fix it, and as far as I can see the banks, mortgage brokers, flippers and appraisers have had minimal punishment, and John Q. Public is left wiith the bill, either individually or collectively. As I said before, the savings and loan crisis was (IMO) similar, and it was solved, why can't we solve this?
--
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Han
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Who exactly are the "people" that say the recession is all or almost all the Feds fault? I never said anything close to that. Only that the the Fed was a very big one that should be added to the list. And I followed that with a long paragraph about the housing bubble in LV and how everyone gets caught up in the greed.

Some of it has been fixed. Why hasn't it all been fixed? I'd say the reasons include:
1 - This recession is of far larger magnitude than the S& one. Houses being overvalued was a part of the S&L, but you didn't have them anywhere near as overvalued then as in 2007. Nor was the problem anywhere as widespread.
2 - Obama hasn't shown the leadership or even chosen to get involved. He just deflects it all to Congress.
3 - There wasn't an interest in identifying the real root causes. Obama and the Dems prefer to just pretend that it was all created by the policies of Bush and blame it on him for political purposes. Yet, they can't point to the specifics of exactly what Bush policies allegedly caused it.
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