I am surprised that none of the pundits I have heard so far have picked
up on the idea that ebola sounds like a terrorist's wet dream:
infectious material easily obtained, easily transported in the form of
contaminated clothing.... and so-forth. Somebody, somewhere must be
thinking of this stuff....
On Monday, October 27, 2014 5:09:37 PM UTC-4, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
ISIS already said a couple weeks ago that they were working on ways to
bring it to the USA. Right now, given that they have suicide mission
folks, the way to do it is obvious and would take very little money
and resources to pull off.
Coming from an RN that is experience talking. You can do everything
right and have things still go off the rails. The operation was
successful, the patient died has some basis in fact.
As I mentioned, though the history of Ebola is filled (pretty much 1 or
2 every outbreak) where medical people did all the stuff they were
supposed to do and yet got it. That is the main reason every one is
always sure it is going aerosol until not enough get it.
I was a bit cavalier perhaps, but things happen that we don't how or
If one virus particle can spread Ebola that will the first time in the
history of mankind that any virus (or bacteria for that matter) will be
able to do that. Also goes against what WHO and CDC have been saying
about it gets more infective the sicker a person gets.
If only one could indeed do it, we'd all been dead along time ago.
But that doesn't match up the science. Ebola doesn't become
infective until you have symptoms. Even then, the real problems don't
come around until you start with the bleeding, vomiting, etc. You will
note that nobody popped up Ebola even after they sent the first guy in
Dallas home for a few days. The boyfriend of the nurse didn't get it.
Nobody on any of the airplanes has been diagnosed yet. The only people
that have gotten it were those two nurses who were in intimate contact
with the Dallas dude for long periods of time when he was the
sickest/most infective. None of the rest of the staff that attended to
him has tested positive.
The best way to handle Ebola would be have a visiting nurse see
them at home twice a day for a couple of weeks.
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
They didn't do everything "right" or they would not get the disease. I
can't recall ANY time, over many years, that a family member or friend
was hospitalized and either the doc or nurses didn't do something really
wrong. Most recently, my daughter had a serious facial
injury...compound fracture of her nose, open wound...had one of the best
specialized plastic surgeons do a nice repair. I went with her for her
first post-op visit....nurse came in to remove dressing, waited a bit
for the surgeon...then surgeon walked in without washing his hands (door
knobs are not sterile), walked over, touched the wound. She got an
infection. Considering how much discussion there is about hospital
acquired infection, it was an arrogant, careless thing to do. It is
how docs and nurses continue to kill people.
More infective with sicker patients because the virus load (think
concentrated poison) is so much greater.
The doc who came back to NYC and got E. had been feeling fatigued before
he got the fever....having worked with the epidemic close up, he should
have been more careful. And that was one person expert and
knowledgeable who didn't recognize early symptoms. Then there is the RN
who knew she should not travel but got on a commercial flight with a
fever to go to a wedding.
It took the CDC one hell of a long time to figure out why gay men were
getting a wierd disease....not until AIDS was in the blood supply and
killing hemophiliac children? The CDC and a bunch of medical "experts"
are wearing themselves out with pretty weak reassurances. CDC can't
make up it's mind about hazmat suits or isolation. Isolation of
communicable diseases should be settled science, not a mystery to
modern, major hospitals. Dallas hospital had nurses caring for Ebola
patient AND the other patients....probably refused to pay them overtime
as well :o)
And none of them are talking about Ebola becoming established in wild
animals here as it is in Africa...just a few rats in a sewer?
From what I've read one of the problems is that a *fresh* observer is
required to insure protocols are absolutely followed because tired nurses
and doctors pulling double and triple shifts slip up. Also, an observer can
see the backs of people. Some problems occur as health workers who might
have bodily fluids spilled on areas they can't see remove their hazmat suits
and accidentally contaminate themselves.
As ghastly as Ebola is, we're fortunate to understand the nature of these
diseases and how to combat and prevent them. I can't imagine what it was
like to live in a time of medical ignorance like Tudor England where the
sweating sickness was reputed to kill people within three hours:
<This frequently fatal disease caused fever, profuse sweating, headaches,
and extreme shortness of breath. Death usually came quickly. It killed some
within three hours, wrote one Tudor chronicler. Some within two hours, some
merry at dinner and dead at supper.>
Often people of the period would consume tonics and tinctures that were just
as likely to kill them as the disease was.
Scientists believe they now know what caused the disease that could start
with a headache in the morning, leave you gasping for breath in the
afternoon, and dead by nightfall. Makes Ebola look like a slow-motion
killer. It's an interesting medical detective story that may some day
require the exhumation of Henry Brandon, the Duke of Suffolk to be
confirmed, but the clues all line up to point to a modern day killer.
You'll have to read the story to find the answer. (-:
There you go, tarnishing the image of Saint Reagan. (-: You'll anger the
acolytes. They'll start to foam.
Yes, and unhampered by things like the Firestone Customs Service, Armed
Forces, CDC, DOJ, etc. Firestone employees don't elect the chairman of the
board, they can be fired far more easily than a citizen can be stripped of
citizenship. The dissimilarities are endless making it a totally specious
example. Firestone's behavior can't really be compared to the government's
role in such epidemics. It's cherry picking absolutely inappropriate
analogies. And as you point out, the hospital in Dallas was in the private
sector, torpedoing any iota of credibility the Firestone analogy might have
ever had. Glug, glug, down to Davy Jones' locker she goes.
Osama must be laughing from the grave to see how easily the US can be
tricked into war. It doesn't even take bringing down a skyscraper - just
televise a few beheadings and we're whipped into the same old senseless war
frenzy. They could probably whip the war-mongering Christians into total
blood fever by just raping a nun or two for Internet TV.
We seem to have forgotten that even though we pulverized Germany from the
air in WWII it still took boots on the ground during D-Day to win the war.
Obama's "air only" campaign is doomed to failure unless we A-bomb the entire
Middle East. <We're waist deep in the big muddy but the big fool says to
push on.> Change "muddy" to "sandy" and the song means the same. Sadly
Obama's been goaded into making the same old stupid mistakes by the media
and ISIS's PR agents who certainly have outmatched the Whitehouse at every
turn. Especially hypocritical after he critized Bush for the same thing.
Reminds me of the line from "Life of Brian" - "Nail them up I say, nail some
sense into them!" What did *we* end up doing with the war-like tribal
cultures that plagued our westward expansion? Extermination. That's how
tribal conflict almost always ends. Ask any Aussie about the "abos."
And like we did in Iraq, we oust the strongmen that can keep these warring
tribes in check and then wonder why the countries become completely
destabilized. We don't understand the mindset and the "glue" that holds
these backward countries together and somehow believe we can bomb them out
of their tribal ways and into democracies. It's a mistake that's been made
by the left and the right for decades. (Centuries? Eons?) We do it even
though there is almost always negative progress to show (ISIS is being led,
it seems, by former military men who worked for Saddam).
Recently I read that ISIS now has chemical weapons we gave the Iraqis. Let
the countries most affected by Islamic militants fight their own battles.
Let's wean them off US military welfare. Why would they ever stand on their
own two feet if Uncle Sam always steps in to fight their battles?
Well, we're working hard to make it seem that way, with devastating results.
The Russians, Turks and Chinese have a SERIOUS problem with Islamic
militancy but you don't see them wasting their blood or treasure trying to
civilize people who were born uncivilized and will die that way. The Iraqis
wanted us out as fast as we could pack a few years back. Now they're
singing a different tune. Cry me a river.
Car bombing is once again the national pastime of Iraq so I would have to
agree - we're pissing in the wind with nothing to show for it except wet
clothing. And a big hit to the treasury. Worse, still, it's not like we'll
take good care of the soldiers that get maimed fighting for some other
country. It's a lose/lose situation brought about by the skillful publicity
agents of ISIS, the US's bogeyman du jour.
On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:42:40 AM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
I'd say rather than making it specious, you've missed the essence of it.
The fact that Firestone isn't the CDC, DOJ, Customs Service, etc is
precisely the point.
Yeah, it worked.
I didn't say it proves anything. Only that it's an example of how
private sector companies can do things right. As for the Dallas hospital,
re-read what you posted above. In the Dallas hospital, it wasn't the
private sector calling the shots. The CDC had a team there at the
hospital, knew fully well what the hospital was doing, the hospital was
following the CDC protocols.
Sure, marginalize what ISIS is doing as "just a few beheadings". It
was similar dismisal of Bin Laden that lead to 911.
The problem is that it took 3 years of goading to get Obama to act.
If he had been doing his job, it never would have gotten to the point
where most of Iraq fell to ISIS. Obama is always 3 years to months
behind the curve. He lets the enemy, whether Putin or ISIS control
events, shape the battle field. Then when it's too late, he joins the
party, on their terms.
I thpought you libs were full of compassion for those backward countries?
When Republicans don't think private companies should be forced to pay
for women's contraceptives, you scream bloody murder and accuse them of
"war on women". But when ISIS cuts of the heads of men and women, heards
up men, women and children and shoots them, that's just "a few beheadings".
The problem here is that Obama could have strong armend Maliki years ago.
It was obvious he was out of control. One phone call from LBJ, Nixon,
Reagan, Bushs41/43, they would have him in line. Bush 43 did have him
in line. Obama implemented exactly what you want. Just let them do what
they want, ignore it. That how we went from 2008 and peace, to total
Of course it's islam against the west. There are millions of islamic
fundementalist nuts they would like to kill us all, unless we live by
CY: It's "just a few beheadings" at the moment.
Well, each one of those murder victims had
family, friends, and his own life that was
taken in a brutal manner. Lets send Robert
Green to the middle east with a big banner
"Pork for Peace!" and he can be next.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
and yet no one at any other hospital has been infected
I've asked who should be appointed and keep getting silence as an
as soon as the doctor felt like crap and had a fever he reported
himself as a possible ebola patient. the nurse that felt like crap and
had a fever did what?
but you could isolate them for three weeks (sound familiar) until they
But it would have stopped Duncan from coming here. If we
more people in the United States, no matter what their age or health
status will die every day from flu than will die from ebola
Nice of you to admit you were wrong. it's amazing what a little common
sense and research can teach you.
In fact it is you that is pissing and moaning. I only presented a fact
that should have been easily discernable
And you feel much better having it run by a tobacco company that for
decades knew that there was a strong relationship between tobacco and
lung cancer? or maybe you'd rather it run by one of those banks too big
On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:47:43 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
It's a good analogy, not a strawman.
BS. Hundreds have been infected in Africa. A nurse was infected
in Spain. And in the USA, you act as if we've had hundreds of
Ebola patients treated at typical hospitals to form a basis for
comparison. So, far, we have only the Dallas case. The other
couple of hospitals were ones that they specifically took Ebola
patients from outside the USA to because those hospitals were
trained, equipped, specialized to deal with highly contagious,
deadly diseases. We've just started on case number two to compare,
which is NYC. But until a few more weeks go by, we don't know if
any healthcare worker there will be infected or not. And even now,
hopefully something has been learned from that first case in Dallas.
But, you have Perry and Texas on the brain. It's understandable.
With one major screw-up after another, you libs desperately need to
try to take attention off Obama. You have IRSgate, vets dying at the VA,
Syria, the fall of Iraq, ISIS, now Ebola chaos. I feel your pain and
need to look for diversions.
That has nothing to do with the missing in action Ebola czar that
Obama appointed, who has no qualifications for the job at all. I call
him Flounder. He looks like Flounder from Animal House, the fat, dumb, freshman.
Both nurses did exactly the same thing. Do try to pay attention.
Cancer isn't contagious. And it would be impossible to stop the flu
from spreading in the USA by quarantining anyone. Yet obviously even the
CDC recognizes the importance of quarantining Ebola, that it does stop
the spread, because they've been doing it since day one. And if Ebola
is so damn hard to transmit, why did the CDC track down 800 people due
to that one nurse? Why was the plane she traveled on taken out of service
and cleaned 3 times? Why did the close the bowling alley and restaurant
in NYC. Sure, we can do all that, disrupt Americans lives, put them out
of business for good. But we can't institute a ban on non-essential travel
for non-citizen tourists from West Africa. Go figure. You libs have more
concern for the rights of some non-citizen from Africa to come see his
cousin or NYC, than you do for your fellow citizens.
That won't be true if we listen to you and let Ebola get out of control.
And we can't stop the spread of flu. We can spread the spread of Ebola.
You accuse me of not caring about cancer patients, which is of course BS,
but then you're perfectly willing to tolerate some number of dead Americans,
that could be prevented by a simple ban on non-essential travel from
West Africa. To you libs, political correctness, allowing Uncle Kummmi
to come visit his nephew or see NYC, is worth the risk of dead Americans.
Not to me. And not to about two thirds of all Americans as all the polls
continue to show.
But, heh, it's Obama's show. You feel real good going into next Tuesday?
That's an essential difference here. When I'm wrong on something, I'll
admit it, not lie like you do.
The fact is that the fact is irrelevant and only a loon lib would
even go there.
Yes, I feel much better having it run by a company that knows how to grow
tobacco. Maybe we should let the missing Ebola czar grow it in his back
yard. Would that make you happy? Of course, if it was an illegal alien who committed a felony, then you wouldn't be bitching about their past and you'd say we should just treat them like a swell human being. But a tobacco company
shouldn't be allowed to grow tabacco for medical use. Go figure.
On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:52:01 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
The Dallas hospital had the protocols as recommended by the CDC. Not
only that, but the CDC had a team on site in Dallas. Have you once heard
the CDC say that we told the Dallas hospital to do X and they would not?
Of course not. Plenty of hospitals in Africa have had multiple infections
in their staff. And if you want to look at just the USA, then you need
to take a course in probability and statistics. You're expecting us to
draw conclusions from a sample size of one. The Dallas hospital was the
only typical hospital called into action with an Ebola patient showing up
unexpectedly at the ER. The couple of other hospitals knew they had an
Ebola patient coming days in advance and more importanlty, those hospitals
were specifically chosen because of their facilities, experience, training
to deal with deadly, contagious diseases. Good grief.
On Wednesday, October 29, 2014 7:57:33 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
Besides that, Malcom pretends like Dallas didn't listen to or follow the
CDC protocols. In fact, CDC was right there, with a team in Dallas. Not
once did they say or have they said since that the Dallas hospital was not
following their protocols.
This is the same CDC of course that told the Dallas nurse who was already
sick and with fever, that it was OK to get on an airplane. So much for the
CDC and protocols.
On Thursday, October 30, 2014 12:07:08 AM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:
You really, really want to try to desperately pin this on Perry.
Kurt and I have explained it to you. The Dallas hospital was the very
first hospital in the country where a person just walked into the
ER, sick and it turned out to be Ebola. All the other cases were where
it was known days in advance that an American Ebola patient from Arica
was being flown here for treatment. And those hospitals were specifically
chosen because they have training, experience, facilities to deal with
deadly, exotic, contagious diseases. The Dallas hosptial did not.
Neither did the hospital in Spain, where another nurse was similarly
infected. Perry responsible for that too? Or how about the hundreds
of healthcare workers infected in Africa for that matter. The only
other case where a typical local hospital is dealing with an Ebola
walk-in is Bellevue in NYC. And so far, it's too early to tell if
anyone will get infected there. Whether they do or not won't prove
anything either, you still will then have a sample size of just two.
Also, I've pointed out to you before that a national survey of nurses
showed that 80% of them said they had not received training, their
hospital had no writen procedures, inadequate gear to deal with Ebola,
etc. Clearly Perry isn't responsible for 80% of the hospitals in the
Finally, you really need to take a course in probability and statistics.
You're trying to pull far flung silly conclusions from a sample size of
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