OT: Ebola, interesting NBC story on how big business dealt with it

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On 10/26/2014 6:11 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Silence can be considered answer, in some circles.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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wrote:

The gvt doesn't like other competing with it when it comes to "protection and help" as it makes the gvt look incompetent and inefficient, which it usually is. So invariably when they can, the gvt prevents private citizens from providing help. Sort of like the cases where citizens have given up on getting bridge built or road paved and they do it themselves and the gvt finds out and makes them tear it out.
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On 10/26/2014 8:21 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Yes, I've heard of cases of construction companies getting tired of waiting on government. As you say.
Sadly, in the case of the boat to NOLA, it was a government group (municipal fire department) offering to help.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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and Perrysiah allowed two nurses to be contaminated
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and all the other hospitals
It was the

but which hospital had two nurse infected? the one in the worst health care system in the US

Yes, because the Governors know better than Obama, right?

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Quite true. I've read where they now treat Ebola victims on rubber sheets that drain into a "honey pot" to keep the virally infected bodily fluids as well contained as possible. This is a very new strategy that runs counter to 100's of years of treating sick people in hospital beds with traditional linens. It will take a while for the skills required to keep transmission to a minimum to evolve and even then, infected Ebola shit will happen. People get careless and with 1 million viral particles in a single drop of infected blood, accidents are bound to occur.

Also quite true. You're on a roll, Kurt. It's a reminder that we need to be *well* prepared for disease epidemics. They have occurred with devastating regularity throughout human history and they're probably not going to go away. We've had less than optimal responses to swine flu, bird flu, SARS and other diseases in recent history as well. It takes time and experience to learn how to deal with new diseases. I'm confident that we have the apparatus in place to lock the Ebola problem down before it kills anywhere nearly as many people as were killed by the recent mutated flu epidemics simply because of the nature of the disease transmission (fluids v. airborne). Inducing wide-spread panic, as the media seems intent on doing, is probably not going to be very helpful.

True, however it's actually quite a telling indictment of the partisan hackery that afflicts America these days. But as you note, it's not very useful in making sustainable claims against the government's response. Liberal partisans will believe everything Perry did was wrong, and their counterparts will believe the same is true of Obama. The bottom line is neither person had very much to do with anything Ebola related. But they both make very covenient partisan punching bags.

Again, quite true. Reminds me of how the Japanese moved so far ahead of our auto industry in the 80's. Their motto was "fix the problem, not the blame." Public health officials have to walk a fine line between controlling the problem and not inducing a wide-spread panic that could be as bad as the disease - or worse.
It's neither Obama nor Perry's fault but it's just too tempting a subject to keep it from being politicized this close to an election. It's also a reminder that with the country pretty much evenly divided between right and left, that compromise *has* to occur (and it better occur soon because a paralyzed government makes us easy pickings for our many enemies in the world).
--
Bobby G.



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On Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:08:16 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:

Oh please. If Obama had instituted a ban on non-essential travel from West Africa, Duncan would never have been here. And neither would the next person, who just as surely is going to enter because he still refuses that ban that two thirds of Americans want. And just maybe the next person won't be so quickly identified, contained, etc so that you'll have more infected. How many have to get infected or die for political correctness?

Better take that up with OBama. To fix the problem we need a ban on non-essential travel. We need an Ebola czar to lead a coordinated, US response. Obama gave us a political hack, with no experience in healthcare, outbreaks, or anything else. He's a spin doctor. You want to make comparisons to Detroit? Obama is in denial, just like the Detroit was when presented with the threat from Japan.
Public health officials have to walk a fine line between

Politicized? Our elected Republicans really haven't said much. For the most part, they aren't attacking Obama or anyone else. In fact, it's lead to bipartisan cooperation. Cuomo and Christie jointly announced quarantines in their states. Cuomo criticized the govt response more than most Republicans. He said the federal measures were inadequate. The governor of IL, a Democrat, quickly followed suit with identical measures in that state. Because of Obamas failure at a national level, we now have states being forced to act on their own.
It's also a

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I'd hate to categorize you as intelligent, but since you do stupid things, just what is YOUR agenda?
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but Texas is the lowest ranked health care system in the United States

The same way that it was caused by the President
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you should consider using it more often
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I'm still waiting for an answer

as someone has pointed out, in lieu of the expertise demonstrated by the Texas hospital that had two contagion events in staff that drove to work via car, choosing Bellevue where most everyone would likely get to work via subway, all it would take is one contagion event to possibly infect thousands of people...pretty smart thinking on Cuomo's part
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someone with ebola is admitted to a hospital in Texas and later dies. two nurse develop symptoms and you say it isn't a breach in protocol?

and I would suggest that the learning curve was hampered by the fact that Texas has the lowest ranked health care system in the US

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but what were they doing wrong? maybe the commission Governor Perry empaneled will come up with an answer...wait a minute, the Governor hasn't empaneled a commission to investigate
And it's not surprising the CDC doesn't know WTF they're doing,

and yet no one at any other hospital has been infected
Also, being a partisan hack, you wouldn't follow the

of course not, that would be Cuomo, you know they are different states. Texas has the worst health care system in the US, New York doesn't

Yes, but Cuomo knows best

Of course it's Perrys fault in Texas...his state has the worst health care system in the US and the contagions did happen there

sure, but if she felt like crap and had a fever, worked in a hospital with an ebola patient and another nurse had already been contaminated...what kind of nurse is she?

Right, you are all concerned about ebola that has led to one death in the US, but you aren't concerned about the 108 kids who died of flu last year or the thousands who die of cancer. Now the cancer isn't contagious but the over 3000 people who die every year from the flu don't concern you and the flu is more contagious

you really don't think these things thru, do you
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-treatment-how -big-tobacco-military-came-together-n173311
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On Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:25:16 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

Did the governors of TX, CA, AZ, LA, and all the other states the space shuttle fell on appoint commissions to find out what happened when it fell apart?

Non sequitur noted.

See the national survey of nurses done a couple weeks ago, where 80% of them said their hospital was unprepared, they had been given no training on Ebola. After all why should they? Dear leader Obama stated in Sept that an outbreak of Ebola in the USA was extremely unlikely.

Such an approach would be one that Obama and the CDC could adopt as a national policy. Cuomo can't do that. But Cuomo has weighed in on what the CDC and Obama are doing. He said the CDC measures are "inadequate".

No response on the missing political hack turned Ebola czar?

One that trusted the CDC, exactly like you do. You would think that the doctor now infected in NYC would have enough brains to stay at home for 3 weeks too. But he went bowling, road the subway, went to restaurants. And you would think Dr. Snyderman, NBC's chief medical correspondent who should be fired, would have enough sense to obey the voluntary 3 week quarantine she agreed to, but she didn't.

Who says I don't care about cancer or the flu? You can't stop people from getting cancer or the flu by banning non-essential travel from West Africa. But it would have stopped Duncan from coming here. If we could prevent those diseases with a travel ban on a handful of countries, that were experiencing an epidemic, I and most Americans would favor the ban for that too. Also, the death rate from the flu is a tiny fraction of one percent, the vast majority who die from it are the very old, those weakened with other conditions. The death rate from Ebola is 70% and it cuts down everyone from kids to strong, healthy adults.
How many Americans have to die for political correctness? Remember this. Obama is going to reverse himself and finally ban non-essential travel to West Africa. It's just a matter of time and numbers before I can say I told you so. Ebola is out of control in Africa. Despite the assurances of Obama and the idiots at CDC that say we know how to control it there, anyone can see they have no plan. The disease is doubling every 3 to 4 weeks. Their plan for now was the plan they needed 9 months ago. With exponential growth, it's only a matter of time before we have more cases of travelers arriving here.

OK, so the hot house that grows the tobacco plants was acquired by Reynolds. BFD. No one cares who grows the tobacco, as long as we make the desperately needed drug. Only loons like you would sit there and piss and moan. I would think you libs would be happy the a tobacco company is finding uses for tobacco other than cigarettes. I suppose if Obama nationalized it and ran it like Obmamcare, or GM, then it would be peachy keen.
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 17:49:17 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

As I expected, Bull Shit!
Governor Perry does not have the authority to issue a travel ban for anyone from those West African countries; but our idiot-in-chief does. Therefore it could not be the fault of Perry. but your incompetent Oreo refuses to take action and is to blame.
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Governor Perry has the authority and the responsibility to make sure his state health care system isn't the worst in the United States...you know the one that has a hospital that infected two of its nurses, but that cracker refuses to take action and is to blame
and of course, Perry could easily have issued a travel ban on all health care workers at that hospital, but he didn't
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In article

I am saying that we don't know if it was a breach in protocol. As was noted, there are almost always in Ebola outbreaks a few (mostly healthcare providers) where we can find no breach in protocol.

I would say that you are leaping to conclusions over a rather breathtakingly high chasm of partisan outlook.

Noticed you ignored this part.
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but what they conceal is vital.?
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On Monday, October 27, 2014 8:04:11 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:

Bingo! When the first nurse in TX got infected, the CDC immediately said it was a "breach in protocol". Nice. How do they know? No investigation had been done. There are obviously two possibilities:
1 - It was a breach in protocol, ie someone didn't follow the correct procedure, made a mistake, etc.
2 - The protocols are wrong, inadequate, etc.
But, since the CDC not only set those protocols, but had extensive staff on site at the TX hospital, they want to pretent possibility #2 doesn't exist. With 400 healthcare workers in Africa also infected, it's quite possible the disease is being partially spread by other means, eg airborn routes. That path has been documented from pigs to primates. And a whole lab of monkeys, in separate cages, got infected here in the 90s.
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On 10/27/2014 8:31 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I found article http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/25-august-2014/en/ says 240 workers, as of August this year. Must have gone up a bit?
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Christopher A. Young
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I would agree largely, but posit also that both are caught in the idea that government knows all and save all (something both sides tend to at least not disabuse until they are actually held responsible for something. )
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