OT: Ebola, interesting NBC story on how big business dealt with it

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Actually, when Hurricane Katrina was doing its thing, I remember hearing at least several stories of FEMA calling and cancelling aid. One FD within AM radio distance of me was going to send a truck with a fire rescue boat, but FEMA cancelled them. When they started to pack people into Super Dome, it was clear in a hurry that a lot of people were hungry. Some of the locals set up tailgate parties, brought food and cook grills to feed folks. As I remember, the government guys chased them away. Much like the capitalists who go through extreme expense to bring generators which are much in demand. The gov calls that "price gouging" when they travel from far distances to meet needs, and charge a fair market price in high demand moments.
On 10/24/2014 2:46 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

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The Feds wouldn't have had any enforcement authority, so it was probably the local government who kicked them out. Most likely because they did not pay the bribe.
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On 10/24/2014 8:18 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

If my memory is working, FEMA cancelled the fire department rescue boat.
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Per Kurt Ullman:

In the news at the time I kept hearing references to "Posse Comatatus" (SP?)... something about state authorities having to invite government forces in to the state before they were legally allowed to come.... and the state of Louisiana declining to invite them in.
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on, the groups that are coming in are self-sufficient and come with their own tents and supplies, etc. A single fire department boat wouldn't have been all that useful if it took time away from other duties to find them a place to stay and food and water.
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On 10/24/2014 1:46 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

"had good reason" and "had authority to" are different. Obama may have good reason for some of his EO. But if it's not a power delegated by the Constitution, he's out of line.
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Posse Comatatus has to specifically with military acting in law enforcement. You are most likely remembering the fact that a few governors in the area had offered their National Guard troops and LA turned them down.
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face) but rather it falls under his executive authority. 99% of EOs will be okay because Congress hasn't specifically said he couldn't in the legislation. He may have some problems with a couple of Ocare EOs because the legislation was very specific on these deadlines and they weren't written to give the Executive any discretion (part of the problem when you are stuck with a law that wasn't supposed to be a law).
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I'm more worried that more ebola cases will emanate from Texas, what with the lowest ranked health care system in the United States and two infections caused by the hospital than I am about a doctor doing charity work who self-reported himself and infected no one else. Hooray for Texas
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On Saturday, October 25, 2014 12:27:13 AM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

You're as confused as ever. We don't know if the doctor has infected anyone else or not. They have a number of high risk people in quarantine. It will be weeks before we know. Stop drinking that Koolaid!
Speaking of Koolaid, there is an article written for a peer reviewed journal by a professor at Drexel. In it, he takes apart the official 21 day maximum incubation period. In fact, he points out that it's apparently not based on much at all. Perhaps most shocking, WHO says that 21 days is at the 95th percentile. Does that make you feel safe? The prof looked at data from all the other outbreaks and this one and concludes that there is up to a 12% chance that someone could be infected and take longer than 21 days to show symptoms. The CDC's response? They won't comment on the research of others. Nice. Real nice. They better pray that one of those that they give the all clear to after just 21 days doesn't come down with it. If that happens, they are total toast.
Oh, more news on the Ebola front. Obama's total lack of leadership has now resulted in the governors of 3 states instituting their own rules that require mandatory 21 day quarantine for folks like the NY doctor, who are entering their states and have been in contact with people with Ebola. And two of the three are Democrats. Nice. So, because Obama won't act, now instead of having a consistent national policy on people entering the country, it's becoming fragmented and even his own party knows he's failing.
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On 10/25/2014 8:38 AM, trader_4 wrote:

My concerns are increasing, based on the Fed's response, or lack of response. The official position changes each day, and the lack of common sense actions (travel ban) don't appear to be keeping us safe.
There was article yesterday, that in colder climates the virus can be spread aerosol (sneezing in public for example). But not as easily spread in warm climates. ======================http://www.teaparty.org/u-s-army-ebola-goes-airborne-temperature-drops-63635/?utm_source cebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=social
U.S. Army: Ebola Goes Airborne Once Temperature Drops ====================== That means that infected folks in warm Africa are less likely to spread, and cold climates like NYC are more likely to spread. I'm not encouraged.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
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On Saturday, October 25, 2014 8:53:08 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

There are peer reviewed articles by researchers that show that Ebola can be transmitted from pigs to primates via airborn route. And back in the 90s a lab full of monkeys in the USA became infected even though they were housed in separate cages in the same room. Airborne is obviously not the main transmission path, but I'm also skeptical of CDC being so certain that it can never be transmitted that way. It got transmitted here and in Spain in a hospital setting, where no one knows what exactly went wrong. Also, 400+ healthcare workers have been infected in Africa, by unknown route.
In West Africa, this is now out of control. While the WHO, CDC, WH, etc keep saying, "We're going to stop this, we know how, we;ve done it before...", if you look at the disease versus their plan, the plan is destined to fail. For example, Obama sent US troops over weeks ago to build treatment facilities. They are supposed to be ready by the end of the month, that is the plan. But it defies math. They are building 17 of them, that each house 100. That takes care of 1700. Right now WHO has 10,000 infected so far to date. Assume that 5000 are dead or recovered. That leaves 5000 infected to deal with. WHO also says that official number underestimates the real total by up to 2.5x. So, let's use 2x. That means right now you have 10,000 people to treat. The numbers are doubling every 4 weeks. Yet Obama's plan is for 1700 beds by the end of the month.
And even worse, right now, half the beds in Monrovia are empty. Why? Because the govt has decreed bodies must be cremated and the cultural and religous practices there are to keep the body around for a week or more, bathe it, dress it, etc. So, many of those infected won't go to the treament facilities and choose to remain home, hide, etc. Everything that WHO and the US is doing is too little, too late.
Another example of the total incompetence, where is the Ebola czar that Obama appointed? He missed a major meeting at the WH a few days after he was appointed. He just missed another meeting. Has anyone seen him do or say anything?
Finally, let's look at one other fine example. Zmapp is the drug that appears effective from the limited usage so far. It's made by some tiny company, it takes genetically modifying tobacco plants and growing them to produce, so it's a long process. You would think that Obama would have a Manhattan Project like approach, ie get together the big drug companies, the best minds, etc and figure out a real plant to get to hundreds of thousands ofdosages ASAP. Spare no expense, do whatever it takes. You see that happening? No, instead I saw one tycoon, maybe Allen?, donate $150,000 to the small company so they could use that to pursue making some kind of deal with a bigger drug company. THAT is the sorry stage that we're at. There is no more Zmapp available. Any bets on whether the national security folks have some dosages salted away in case Obama or similar gets Ebola?
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but we do know that Texas Governor has allowed two nurses to be infected

and yet there are no documented cases of anyone presenting after 21 days, is there?

If Obama does it, it's over-stepping. If the Governors do it, it's states rights. OTOH, hopefully all of the states around Texas will quarantine anyone travelling into or thru their states...if only Governor Perry didn't have the lowest ranked health care system in the US, that wouldn't be necessary
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On Saturday, October 25, 2014 6:58:55 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

Texas on the brain today? No one in their right mind thinks that the governor of Texas was telling the hospital in Dallas what precautions to take, was there watching them, assisting them, etc. That was the CDC.
>

Try reading the article submitted for publication. Even the WHO says that 21 days is at the 95th percentile point. Capiche? Like when you were in school and they told you that you were in the 5th percentile for achievement. Remember what that meant and how it works?

Obama only over-steps when it suits him to push his lib agenda. When it comes to Ebola, ISIS, Syria, Putin, etc, he's constantly 6 months to 3 years behind the curve. Eventually, he'll be forced to institute a ban on non-essential travel and to appoint someone that knows how to handle the Ebola crisis, instead of the lame political hack that no one has even heard from. But by then, Americans will likely be dead, due to lib political correctness.
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correct and in Texas has the Governor called for an investigation? NO!
Also,

I'm imagining those 400 healthcare workers in Africa were trained to Texas standards

ah, so we should just treat them like they are in Texas

So you don't respect cultural and religious practices unless they are yours?

Yes, let's give the republicans another chance to support the tobacco industry while at the same time berating the democrats with "private industry can do it better" all the while assuming Zmapp is viable based on the smallest sample size possible
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On Saturday, October 25, 2014 7:05:32 PM UTC-4, Malcom Mal Reynolds wrote:

The CDC has the expertise on Ebola, set the standards for precautions, not the governor.

Of course not. Texas has no control over Africa. The WHO is the main organization giving them advice. And the standards used in Texas were those set by the CDC. You know, the same CDC that says, "don't worry, we know what we're doing. You can transmit Ebola on a bus, so if you're high risk, you should stay off buses. But in the next sentence, CDC says you can't catch it on a bus. Go figure. It's what happens when libs run things and political correctness rules.

Texas on the brain today?

You can't possibly be that dumb. You sound like you're ready to work for Obama. When you're dealing with a deadly outbreak, safety trumps cultural and religous practices, idiot.

The tobacco industry, has just as many Democrats as friends, as it does Republicans, maybe more. And the tobacco industry isn't involved in Zmapp, either, idiot.
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 04:37:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

It's one big company. I don't see how one can generalize to big companies in general.
And, it's in LIberia, where most of the executives of the company will be Liberians. A good chance the guy in charge of the whole operation is Liberian. Why would you expect Americans to act like Liberians?
And it's a small country, where the exectives probably know someone who knows a person with Ebola.
If you think private companies in the US are routinely good citizens, you haven't been paying attention. If you think that, you remind me of the people who think their kids don't need vaccinations, because they've forgotten the days when polio killed and paralysed 10's of thousands. Or the people who want the same number of deaths on both sides of a war, because they've forgotten how the US waged WWII. And those who've forgotten how without statutes to control them and the fear of lawsuits to punish them, so many American corporations ran roughshod over anyone in its way.

One example.

Who ever thought that Firestone of LIberia was evil? Or even Firestone of the US, except for the fact that it doesn't make tires in the US anymore and despite the English brand name Bridgestone, they're made in the far East. Of course that is still true..
Just like the US government has checks and balances between the 3 parts of the govenment, legislative, executive, and judicial, big corporations need checks and balances too, between them, laws, and consumers with some power (like lawsuits) or the big corporations would be screwing us left and right.
In fact it appears that Firestone-Liberia is still doing that to its workers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_Natural_Rubber_Company#Alien_Tort_Claims_Act It's likely they is no avenue for relief in LIberia, so they are suing in a U.S. federal court.

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On Saturday, October 25, 2014 9:40:57 PM UTC-4, Bibba. A. Dupres wrote:

I never said you can generalize it to all big companies. But it clearly shows a good example where a private company is doing the right things and it works, while big govts, from the UN, WHO, to Obama are royally screwing the pooch.

When did I say I expected Americans to act like Liberians? Good grief.

Yawn.....

Strawman detected. Strawman rejected.

Total nonsequitur

Total nonsequitur

You're denying that many libs, hippies, leftist, etc think big business is evil? Sounds like you are one of them, because you clearly have a fetish here for going after Firestone. Firestone did the right thing, it worked. Where is any examination, criticism of WHO, CDC, Obama in all this? How about, for example, his appointing a lame, politcal hack as Ebola czar? You see that kind of thing happen in the private sector much? Big crisis at the company, they elevate a political hack, with no experience in the matter, to run things?
Or even Firestone

Irrelevant. Anything else you want to throw up on the wall? Maybe you should bring in Rick Perry, like the idiot Malcolm.

Irrelevant.

News flash. Anyone can file a lawsuit over anything. It doesn't say a thing about the basis in fact, merit, or anything else. I assume Liberia has it's local versions of Big Al, Uncle Jessie, etc.
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 15:58:48 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
<part of argument snipped)

I sure would like you to explain how that was caused by the governor.
You damn libs will always take credit for a favorable outcome when you had nothing to do with it and you'll blame everyone when the outcome is unfavorable when only your fingerprints on it.
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On 10/25/2014 10:13 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Ah, you mean after Obamasiah let in the case zero to the hospital to begin with?
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