OT - credit card upgrade question

Page 7 of 7  
On Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:41:47 +0000 (UTC), Roger Blake

Fine if you never stay at a hotel or rent a car. No reason to disable it anyway.
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Mayayana wrote:

So now the merchant knows you have a tampered with card. Good luck buying high-ticket items with it.
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| So now the merchant knows you have a tampered with card. Good luck | buying high-ticket items with it. |
High ticket items? Do you buy cars with credit cards? I don't. The card has a tiny hole. Most of the time the clerks don't even look at the card. If they do they're unlikely to see the hole. If they see it and ask I'll tell them. There's no reason for them to care, as long as the card swipes OK. In my last one I removed the chip. That was several years ago. I've yet to have any problems.
I would bet that if you try to tell 10 clerks that you've removed an RFID chip from your credit card, 9 will say, "Have a good day, sir." If it's not required to do their job they won't care. Curiosity is not a common thing. :)
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On 4/11/2015 10:51 PM, Mayayana wrote:

What is your plan for the future? At some point merchants may not have equipment to swipe?
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| What is your plan for the future? At some point | merchants may not have | equipment to swipe?
Maybe not. My current plan is for now.
I don't see why you feel so strongly in your defense of the changes. You've posted a flurry of adamant posts saying that people should accept the changes and not worry. I'm just saying that I'm dubious, I want to be careful, and I want to understand exactly what I'm dealing with. And based on what I know now I'm trying to protect my privacy/security. Doesn't that make sense?
I find your approach is usually a symptom of ostrich thinking: People who don't want to deal with things get annoyed by people who do. Mention computer security/privacy and the ostriches immediately start making tinfoil hat jokes, because they don't want to be reminded of what they're trying hard to ignore. I've never subscribed to that strategy. If you put your head in the sand you're likely to get burned in the ass, or worse. :) Willful ignorance seems like the relaxing option, but in the end it's actually far more demanding and tiring work than simply relating to things in the first place.
It's the pebble-in-the-shoe syndrome. We avoid a pebble in our shoe because it seems like a hassle to stop and take it out. Eventually we've got a sore foot and a pain in our hip joint. Finally we tear off our shoe, furiously mad at that pebble -- "I politely ignored you. How dare you keep pestering me?!"
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On 4/12/2015 8:54 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Knowing what you are dealing with makes perfect sense. That is why I think it is silly to destroy a security measure that will do you no harm. Like you, I did a little research and I now know the difference between an RFID and EMV chip.I also know I have no liability so I'm not worried.

That is where you are wrong here. Your premise may have value, but I did bother and educated myself and I'm confident it is better than the old swipe card.

Yes, that is why I did some research. Eliminates the ignorance.

So we should adjust our tinfoil hats and move along.
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On 4/12/2015 9:25 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

In Canada we have had the chips for several years, now almost all the POS machines will prompt you to insert the chip even if you try to swipe it. Destroying the chip will effectively render the card useless.
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On 4/12/2015 9:49 AM, FrozenNorth wrote:

Yes, that is the next step here. It will take a while to get all the equipment upgraded, but is is happening.
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| In Canada we have had the chips for several years, now almost all the | POS machines will prompt you to insert the chip even if you try to swipe | it. Destroying the chip will effectively render the card useless.
I'd be happy with that. What I'm not happy with is contactless cards that can be read by anyone nearby and contain a RFID chip (or possibly, in some cases, an EMV chip.) I think this issue is getting confused by the conflation of contact-less IDs with a new style of swipe technology.
I found a PDF with the EMV schedule proposed by the various card issuers. V/MC do say that as of 10/1/15 "the less secure party will be liable", but as far as I can see, neither party is going to be anywhere near having EMV chips in the US by then. As I noted above, I just got a new card and it only has an RFID chip, which I promptly disabled. The last card from that bank, a few years ago, also had an RFID chip. I've yet to see an EMV card.
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Mayayana wrote:

I was thinking about a $1500 TV, not so much a car!
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| > High ticket items? Do you buy cars with credit | >cards? I don't. | | I was thinking about a $1500 TV, not so much a car! |
You have rich tastes. If I had to pay $1,500 for a TV I'd settle for reading. :)
If it weren't for Netflix I'm not sure I'd even bother. PBS has gradually degenerated into the British Soap Opera Channel. (With occasional breaks for Neil deGrasse Tyson to pass off carnival barking and special effects as science.) The networks seem to all be playing either a slick version of Community Auditions or one of the numerous sicko police shows like "Let's Hunt a Psycho Murderer" or "Let's Figure Out Exactly How The Psycho Murderer Tortured His Victims" or "Catching a Psycho Murderer by Studying Worms in Corpses". (What is it with this perverse, gruesome obsession?) When I'm so tired that I'll watch almost anything, I find myself switching back and forth between old Cary Grant or John Wayne movies and ads for transvaginal mesh lawsuits. .... I seem to remember there used to actually be thoughtful shows on TV, but I can't seem to find them anymore.
But all that aside, I sometimes do spend upward of $1,000 at HD or lumber yards. I regularly spend several hundred dollars at a time. I can't remember the last time that I even had to show my card. I just swipe, scribble gibberish on the plastic screen, and I'm on my way.
My impression is that both the merchants and the credit card companies are generally happy with the status quo. The credit card companies are making a bundle through 2% cuts and loansharking scams. They're apparently also losing a lot through theft, but I'm guessing that's pocket change for them. If it weren't they would have done something about it.
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And I love it. My Amex cashback card gives me back 3%, 2% or 1% cash depending on what I buy. That currently amounts to around US$500 a year for me which I apply to my bill. Since I don't carry a balance, and there is no annual fee, that is free extra cash for me, That's cash I wouldn't have if I paid cash...
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| And I love it. My Amex cashback card gives me back 3%, 2% or 1% cash | depending on what I buy.
That's because AmEx charges more to merchants than the other companies. You may get cash back but you're also helping to drive up the prices you pay.
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Nope.
My prices are cheaper. I'm helping drive up the prices *you* pay.
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On 4/9/2015 2:26 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

They have been around for a while. If there were problems, the CC issuers would have stopped making them.
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On 4/9/2015 2:26 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Are you sure the upgrade will be an RFID chip and not an EMV (Europay, MasterCard and Visa) "pin and chip" type of chip - which requires physical, electrical contact with the card reader? The EMV pin and chip is much more common than the RFID chip, is used throughout Europe, and has appeared on 3 of our U.S. issued credit cards during recent update/upgrade cycles. EMV chip readers are being phased in in the U.S., not RFID readers - which used to be in many of my local supermarkets here in the D.C. metro area, but have since been replaced by non-RFID card readers. EMV chips cannot be read by RFID sniffers.
I don't want and wouldn't use an RFID chip card because of the security vulnerabilities. If your card will have an RFID chip, I'd check with the issuing bank to see if they have a card with an EMV chip that will meet your needs.
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On 4/9/2015 2:26 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Do they actually say that it is "RFID" or is it merely a chipped card (chip and pin)? The latter has been used in the rest of the world for a very long time rather than our primitive magnetic swipe cards? All of the North American CC purveyors are supposed to be switching to chipped cards although they are fighting it and dragging their feet.
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On 04/11/2015 01:35 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
[snip]

One of my cards (Sears Mastercard) was replaced with a chipped card last year. The others haven't.
BTW, more than 10 years ago, my American Express card had RFID. They took that out around 5 years ago.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
  Click to see the full signature.
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My wife's Amex card was replaced with a chipped one about 6 months ago and mine wasn't. I called thinking mine was lost in the mail since in the past we always got our new cards at the same time. They said they were just trying a limited issue and I would get one eventually.
So far my other cards haven't changed yet.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I don't destroy mine. If someone gets *that* close, we will have a problem.
PS. If you get a new (US) passport it has an RFID chip. Some people recommend taking a hammer to the chip. If you do, and its deemed deliberate you can be charged with destroying government property! So don't admit to it.
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