OT computers

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| > :) I'd call anything from Symantec crapware. | > | > And when it's pre-installed as a free trial version | > | > it's sleazy crapware. Symantec would be out of | > | > business if they didn't pull that trick on onwitting | > | > computer buyers. | | I guess I must be one of those "unwitting" buyers. My HP came with | free Norton for a year. When I bought it, they had a deal where for | a nominal fee, I think it was ~$30, you could get two additional years. | I took advantage of that. I got 3 years of Norton and it's performed | fine by me, no issues at all.
Symantec has a long history of buying good products, then bloating them, cutting down functionality, and raising the price. They then make those products a success through marketing. (There's been a current discussion about this on the XP group.)
Last I saw, Norton was among the most bloated of the AV options, and that's not good because AV is already very demanding in terms of resources. Other products Symantec has ruined that I used personally:
* Quarterdeck CleanSweep - They bought it, added it to System Works, and pretty much removed any useful functionality.
* AtGuard firewall - One of the best firewalls ever made. Symantec licensed it, doubled the price, repackaged it as their own Norton Internet Security, and set over 700 program files to be exempt from the firewall, making it very easy to use but of little value.
* Powerquest Drive Image and Partition Magic - Powerquest was no sweetheart. They carefully separated one program into two, overcharged for them, and claimed they were only licensed for use on a single hard disk! But at least PM and DI worked. When Symantec bought them out they were turned into a massively bloated backup program, which is now off the market.
| I think I saw where you posted suggesting | that anti-virus isn't needed. I'd say it's that view that's unwitting. |
I install AV for friends who's computers I manage. Usually Avast Free. All of them are significant resource hogs, but if you don't know how to protect from online risks and/or you can't be bothered, then AV is a good idea.
I don't use AV personally. I haven't for many years. I almost never enable javascript, don't have Flash installed, don't have Adobe plugins of any kind, and don't have Java installed. I also know what to look for in terms of risky email. The Internet with javascript is not safe and cannot be made safe. But script is required if you use webmail, Facebook, do a lot of online shopping, etc. I don't do those things in general, so I have no need for AV. Nearly all attacks online require javascript, Java, or any Adobe plugin.
When AV started out they were small programs that were updated with a 1 MB file once per month. The number of viruses were in the thousands. Now that number is in the millions and virus "signatures" are updated in terms of hours rather than months. The whole approach of AV is outdated. It's comparing those millions of signatures to the byte patterns in every file you touch -- a vast amount of work, and wasteful -- especially when most of the files you touch are already on your computer!
I guess maybe a good AV analogy would be having 8 attack dogs rather than having a front door. The dogs are expensive to maintain, they shit all over the yard, they bark a lot, and they make it hard for friends to visit. But if you're not going to install a locking front door on your house then I wouldn't argue with the usefulness of the dogs. :)
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On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:57:06 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:

I certain agree with your general assessment of Norton (and I would add McAfee in the mix). I have family members on this PC, so I'm using Avast Free, MalwareBytes Pro, and Keyscrambler to offset poor surfing abilities. I like Avast's boot scan...which many others lack.
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On 4/9/2014 10:18 AM, Bob_Villa wrote:

I also like the boot time scan feature. Norton 360 also has that, and you're right, none of the other free AVs have that feature AFAIK. I've never heard of Keyscrambler will have to look it up. Another great tool for surfing the web is WOT. Not foolproof but it's pretty damn good.
https://www.mywot.com/
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrymagid/2014/04/09/test-for-heartbleed-vulnerability-and-advice-on-changing-passwords/
<<A flaw in the most popular web encryption system could leave people vulnerable to data theft according to security researchers. That little padlock in the lower right corner of a browser window or the letters "https" in the address bar are supposed to mean that the site is encrypted but the most popular method, called OpenSSL has had a hole for at least two years according to researhers. The Heartbleed bug "allows anyone on the Internet to read the memory of the systems protected by the vulnerable versions of the OpenSSL software," according to Codenomicon's Heartbleed.com site. which added, "This allows attackers to eavesdrop on communications, steal data directly from the services and users and to impersonate services and users."
Test sites you visit
This test isn't 100% definitive but it is an indicator of whether the site you're using is currently vulnerable but doesn't indicate whether it may have been affected in the past so even if the site you enter comes up clear there is no guarantee that it wasn't vulnerable earlier. Still, it's worth checking by clicking here for Filippo Valsorda's report and and here for Qualys SSL Labs report>>
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/ There's not much sense in changing passwords, as many other sites are recommending, until you run this test to determine if the vulnerability is patched. The SSL Labs URL is a good one to check *any* site you do business with that uses SSL technology.
--

Bobby G.





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On 4/9/2014 9:57 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Right now on this computer Norton 360 is using 12mbs to 16mbs of RAM. Norton *used* to be a resource hog...not any more.
I snipped too much of your post. Just wanted to let you know that you might wanna try Panda Cloud AV. It is the lightest AV that I've ever seen, and it also has very good test scores.
http://www.cloudantivirus.com/en/
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-7/janfeb-2014/
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On 4/9/2014 8:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:

There is nothing wrong with Norton. There was for years, but it's fine now. I wouldn't pay for it, too many free alternatives, but I get it for free so I use it.
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On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:19:42 AM UTC-5, Ron wrote:

Don't get excited...I heard you! *L*
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On 4/9/2014 8:34 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Norton/Symantec is now a great piece of software. No longer a resource hog. Norton 360 comes with my ISP and I use it. Funny thing is I knew I had it for a couple of years but never installed it because Norton has always been a resource hog. A few months ago I decided to give it a try and I love it. The first thing I noticed was how much faster both of my laptops booted with 360 instead of Avast which shocked me.
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On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:17:19 AM UTC-4, Ron wrote:

I agree. Like you I actually have it installed. It's been on my PC for 3+ years now. It came free with the HP system and I extended the license for 2 more years for $30. That was a good deal, it's performed fine, no performance issues, etc. It's amazing how people who don't run it claim to know everything that's wrong with it.
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My words of wisdom would be to ask your question in a computer related ng, not a home repair group.
Sure, there are those that know a bit about computers in this ng and I'm sure there are those that know how to repair a roof in a computer related ng, but I have to ask: Would you ask a question related to ridge vents in comp.arch?
Since I doubt you would, I have to wonder why you would ask a computer related question here.
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On 3/30/2014 5:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Perhaps it's because computers have become an integrated part of a modern home. If you think about it, homes these days are having to adapt to the requirements for computerized equipment since most everything has a microprocessor. The power needs to be clean for proper operation and protection of computerized electronics in the home. Many items share a computer network in the home. I can't function very well in my home without a computer and I wouldn't be posting to Usenet without a computer. So why not ask computer questions in a home repair group which is infested with any number of very talented and bright folks who know a lot about many different things and are willing to share their knowledge without being judgmental? ^_^
TDD
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Remove your old hard drive and turn it into a USB external with this, to transfer your files to the new PC. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3XT1DA9540
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On 3/30/2014 5:41 PM, Jerry wrote:

Argument I'm having with wife on her old machine. Figure new hard drive, couple of extra gigs memory and new OS, you're going to spend about $300.
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Frank wrote:

Hi. When you mention extra gigs of memory, are you running 32 bit or 64 bit machine or Linux? 32 bit machine(OS) has memory size limit Just addming gigs of memory may not do any thing. New HDD? Is it SATA drive or an old IDE? My main box can multi boot XP(32 bit), W7(64bit), W8(64 bit) Ubuntu 12.3. Depending what I do I can boot OS I want/need. Lots of storage, optical drives, even has floppy yet, LOL. Another box which is up 24/7 is on ssd, 3rd gen. i7, 16 gb memory, Drives 3 surveillance cameras and NAS box. 16TB on NAS, 8TB in the box. They go to sleep when not active.
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On 3/30/2014 7:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Basically saying, get a new computer. To keep old, I'd take Oren's advice and run Belarc to see what memory might be available. I did that a while back and added memory. Her concern now is dying of XP and all the warnings being given out. Win 8.1 is over $100 from MS. I figure with new decent computer costing less than $500 and other things bound to fail on old machine, she might as well get a new one. Reticent to push anything since Win 8.1 may confound her besides she has a Win 7 laptop and an iPad. Just installed a wireless printer for those two.
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On 3/30/2014 6:10 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

What boot loader are you using? Where is it available? Is it part of Linux? o_O
TDD
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On Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:10:45 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:

If the MB can handle the extra memory, there isn't an OS in the last couple decades that won't make use of it.
New HDD? Is it SATA drive or an old

Who cares, it's a 12 year old PC with a failing HD and he said he wants more speed, more memory, etc. Simple answer is there isn't anything there worth upgrading and you just buy a new PC.
My main box can multi boot XP(32 bit), W7(64bit), W8(64 bit) Ubuntu

Irrelevant of course.
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On 03/30/14 05:41 pm, Jerry wrote:

Trying to upgrade a 12-yr-old computer is not going to be practical. The easiest thing you might be able to upgrade at all is the amount of memory, but memory that fits a computer that old is likely to be very expensive compared to newer-style memory. You might be able to install a larger hard disk and transfer everything from the old one, but I probably wouldn't bother if it were my computer.
And what operating system is installed. If it's Windows XP, that will be officially "orphaned" next month: no more updates or bug fixes.
The last computer I bought -- as distinct from building my own -- was a Lenovo T-Series ThinkPad (a notebook, one of the industrial-strength ones) with a year of its 3-year warranty still in force. I understand that businesses tend to get rid of their computers (or not renew the leases) after two years, even if they are still in warranty.
Perce
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On 03/30/2014 05:41 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I build and repair computers.
A friend of mine wanted me to install 8 gigs of RAM in his older machine. The motherboard did support it but it was DDR2.
8 gigs of RAM (good new) is over $200
I ordered a whole new mobo. CPU and 8 gigs of DDR3 for just under $200
A much better machine for a little less money...a no brainer!
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On 3/30/2014 5:54 PM, philo wrote:

That's because you're smarter than the average bear. ^_^
TDD
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