OT computers

| If any one is upgrading their hardware, it'd be wise to have HD | video/audio and HDMI connector plus USB3 port(s).

As I understand it, the decision is between salvaging an older XP box and buying a new PC. To extend the life of the XP box, a new hard disk should do it. Maybe some more memory could be useful. Maybe not.

Getting HDMI or USB3 (neither of which seems terribly important to me) would mean putting in a new motherboard ....which then needs a new power supply ...and a new CPU ...and new RAM ...And then if he has OEM XP then that won't run on the updated box and can't be reactivated. I don't think the OP is interested in building a new PC for himself. If it comes to that he's just going to buy a new PC.

Reply to
Mayayana
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Sometimes the smart thing to do in the OP's case is to get a win7 machine that supports virtualization and put on a virtual XP - so he can still use his favourite programs like outlook express.

Or buy an off-lease computer with WinXP Pro that is only less than 5 years old with DDR3 ram and SATA hard drive instead of his ancient ide HD and DDR2 ram.

Reply to
clare

Grow into a brand new machine. Keep present one working and set up. Data and pics and stuff can be transferred in some fashion. Get advice as you go along.

I have vrious computers and different operating systems. I got W98, W2K, XP, W7, Vista. I am not getting rid of a computer or system just to upgrade, anytime soon. I have no reason to stop using XP.

A new computer is only comparable with whatever it specifies.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

What's the operating system ?

Greg

Reply to
gregz

Though I am not stupid I am not particularly smart either but I know that $220 is more than $180

Reply to
philo 

-- | Sometimes the smart thing to do in the OP's case is to get a win7 | machine that supports virtualization and put on a virtual XP - so he | can still use his favourite programs like outlook express. |

He probably has OEM XP. Putting it on a Win7 box would require buying a new OEM CD, for probably about $100 if he could find it. There's no reason he can't keep the old machine running. And it doesn't sound like he's the sort of person to be setting up VMs. :)

| Or buy an off-lease computer with WinXP Pro that is only less than 5 | years old with DDR3 ram and SATA hard drive instead of his ancient | ide HD and DDR2 ram.

Even in 2002 the machine he has would have probably had about a 1 Ghz CPU and maybe 500 MB RAM. That's more than enough for most uses. Nothing is faster than instant, no matter how new it is. *A lot* of money is wasted on loads of RAM that never gets used. If he wants to do a lot of editing of 30 MB images then he probably needs a new box. For most other things, the cheapest PCs have been more than adequate for many years now. (That's a nice aspect of XP. Microsoft went to great lengths to build bloat into Vista/7 so that their hardware partners could sell more stock. Win8 needs 1 GB RAM just to sit there. But XP is zippy on old hardware, and does just fine with 256 MB RAM for most uses.)

Reply to
Mayayana

Don't sell yourself short there philo, you are one of the brightest folks posting here. You gladly share your experience and knowledge which makes you a great guy to know. ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Thanks.

I've said this before:

We learn from our mistakes, therefore I have learned a lot.

Reply to
philo 

The new or off-lease computer would come with the OS installed, and installing virtual XP is litterally a "piece of cake".

I've been in the PC business now for 25 years (well, will be 25 years in August). 256 is inadequate to run anything of consequence on XP. 512 will work, but 1024 really wakes it up, particularly if running 2 programs at a time. Takes all the load off the hard drive (swap file/virtual ram issues). With 256 ram, you WILL wear out the hard drive.

Reply to
clare

P/Compaq because of all the crapware. I have a free PC that I installed Win dows 7 (Dell 8400 3Ghz,3Gb,320GbHDD, basically ancient) and it runs very we ll! And there's always Craigslist!

I have two HP systems, two to three years old and have no "crapware" problems, issues, etc with either of them. They do come with some utilitie s, and Norton, but nothing that's intrusive, full of ads, or anything like tha t. I'm very happy with them, liked the HP website for configuration and would buy from them again.

Reply to
trader_4

If the MB can handle the extra memory, there isn't an OS in the last couple decades that won't make use of it.

New HDD? Is it SATA drive or an old

Who cares, it's a 12 year old PC with a failing HD and he said he wants more speed, more memory, etc. Simple answer is there isn't anything there worth upgrading and you just buy a new PC.

My main box can multi boot XP(32 bit), W7(64bit), W8(64 bit) Ubuntu

Irrelevant of course.

Reply to
trader_4

I just had a friend complaining to me that he was trying to restore an XP system he has and he said he tried to download service pack 3 for XP and it's no longer available. Not sure that's true, but that's what he said. If so, that's a real bitch. I can understand not supporting it anymore, but you would think MSFT would still make available the existing last updates for it.

Reply to
trader_4

Ridiculous. I recently retired a secondary 1 Ghz XP machine with 1 GB of RAM and it's performance was pathetic compared to any current basic PC. It's pathetic compared to the 3 year old PC I'm using as my main PC.

Nothing is faster than

More nonsense.

If he wants

And the current cheap one blows away that 12 year old

1 ghz system, running XP, which MSFT is discontinuing support for.

(That's

Irrelevant because PCs have had a lot more memory than that for a decade+.

It's also being EOL'd by MSFT. Why would anyone who wants more speed invest more money in a 12 year old PC, running XP, with a dying disk?

Reply to
trader_4

Actually the question was this:

"My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory, speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available anymore. "

Maybe

Irrelevant. Given the stated issues, it's time for a new PC. Since Outlook Express is no longer supported, he can try out Windows Mail on his current system and see if he's OK with it. If so, then there isn't any issue to going with a new PC with an OS that isn't being EOL'd, instead of putting money into a dinosaur. If he doesn't like Windows Mail, as someone else pointed out there are other alternatives and a bit of googling should produce plenty of opinions from folks in a similar position.

Reply to
trader_4

I'm not the "gotta get the latest and greatest" person. However, when a computer is 12 years old, while still usable, things start to get slow. As time goes on and computers get more and more powerful, software developers use up all these nice new resources leaving us with the older PCs waiting longer and longer. I just recently replaced a 4 year old PC with a new one, faster and better. Normally, I would not do this for a PC that was only 4 years old, however, I came into this motherboard because it was not compatible with another application ... mostly specific hardware incompatibilities. My wife would still be using W95 and complaining all the way, how slow it it, if I didn't upgrade periodically. We probably won't be seeing W8 anytime soon. BTW, I haven't heard a word yet on this new computer, but I know the day will come, even if it's 5 years away. This all said, with the OP's 12 year old machine, the 1st thing I would try is a clean new install of the OS and a new HD if it is required. Of course, if you need a new HD, it's probably PATA and depending on the OS, it might be too large for the OS to deal with, in which case you would need to partition it into several smaller drive. And, the stuff you need, must be backed up. The nice thing about a totally new PC, is that you can still use the old PC to bring everything to the new one, either by network or thumb drive.

Reply to
Art Todesco

You could do that, but I wouldn't be so sure it's a piece of cake. XP is being EOL's by MSFT right now. No more support, no more updates for security fixes, nada. Also, I wouldn't assume that XP has all the necessary drivers, with bug fixes, etc for any new PC that he's about to buy. For example if he buys an HP with a particular vidoe card in it, how can you be sure that driver is certified to work with XP? And if you buy a new HP, screw it up, and can't get XP installed, then what? And the point to installing an old OS is what exactly? He can't just use Windows Mail or switch to an alternate?

Then add in the fact that IDK what browser he's using, but if it's Windows Explorer, the newer versions of that no longer run on XP, so he's very likely to run into big problems there, trying to access web content for example, that won't run on an old unsupported browser.

In short, just buy a new PC and use it out of the box.

And the 6GB or whatever that you get with a basic PC today, combined with a multi-core 3 ghz CPU will work even better. Even a $100 Android cell phone has 2GB of memory today.

Reply to
trader_4

Most people have brand loyalty not matter how irrational it may be...you may drive a Chrysler branded vehicle that is majority owned by Fiat. Dell,HP/Compaq,Acer/Gateway,Lenovo, all sell entry level PC's...and they all come with a certain amount of "crapware" (or limited use programs) that subsidizes the lowest price!

Reply to
Bob_Villa

| > Even in 2002 the machine he has would have probably | > had about a 1 Ghz CPU and maybe 500 MB RAM. That's | > more than enough for most uses. | | Ridiculous. I recently retired a secondary 1 Ghz XP machine | with 1 GB of RAM and it's performance was pathetic compared | to any current basic PC. It's pathetic compared to the 3 year | old PC I'm using as my main PC. |

There is a caveat: It won't be fast if you don't run it clean. XP starts out with dozens of unnecessary services running by default. Then installed software often loads at boot without asking. If you run anti-virus you're adding a huge load with doubtful benefit. When you install hardware it will often load unnecessary startup programs. All of that can drag down any system. On numerous occasions I've had friends ask for help because their computer is running in slow motion. It's not XP that's the problem. And it's not old hardware. Once the software "barnacles" are cleaned off those machines run fine.

| > | > But XP is zippy on old hardware, and does just fine with 256 | > MB RAM for most uses.) | | It's also being EOL'd by MSFT. Why would anyone who wants | more speed invest more money in a 12 year old PC, running XP, | with a dying disk?

The OP may not want to. I was trying to describe his options. If he really wants to stay with what he's using his best option is to replace the hard disk. If he's happy moving to Win8 then he can do that for as little as $300. It's up to him. To my mind, replacing the hard disk is certainly a viable option. It's the part most likely to wear out.

XP EOL could certainly be an issue. If you just want to buy a box and have it work then it makes the most sense to simply buy new PCs when the old one seems inadequate. But if you don't mind spending some time, there's no reason they can't be maintained. And XP EOL really means very little. I run XP with SP3 but don't -- and wouldn't -- ever allow AutoUpdate to run, installing a constant drip-feed of barely tested changes... But that gets into security issues, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

I recently built myself a new box. I have XP on it. I built it with cheap parts from TigerDirect. I always buy older models of motherboard and CPU because the technology far outstripped the need years ago. I see no sense paying hundreds for the latest CPU when a model for $65 is still incredibly fast. I put 4 GB RAM into my new box, but only because that was the cheapest option. Win32 can only use a bit over 3 GB, and 2 GB would have been more adequate.

I do some photo editing, some web design work, and I write Windows software. (I make most of my income as a carpenter/contractor, but also have a sideline writing shareware, freeware utilities and components for use with scripting.) I've got a dual CPU, super-duper Dell in the other room that was given to me. It has Win7 on it. I don't like Win7. I prefer XP. Win7 is a bloated, spyware mess to my mind. It's salvageable, but barely. Win8 is worse. I use the Win7 box for testing software. Both the Win7 dual CPU box and my new XP box, with "mediocre" AMD A6 2-core, respond instantly. I keep them clean. If you find you need a high-power machine for speed to do things less intensive than video editing then you probably have a lot of crap weighing down the system... And you've probably been reading too many mainstream media articles written by tech journalists who depend on hardware and software companies for ad dollars. The world of tech survives on a dizzying pace of forced obsolescence, so if you go by what the media tells you you'll end up replacing gadgets as fast as you buy them.

Reply to
Mayayana

| The new or off-lease computer would come with the OS installed, and | installing virtual XP is litterally a "piece of cake".

You mean Virtual XP mode for Win7? I thought you meant installing a VM. I don't know anything about Virtual XP mode, but it seems to require Win7 Pro, which costs quite a bit more than Win7 Home OEM. Maybe that's worth it to someone who can't give up XP but *has to* buy a new machine.

| I've been in the PC business now for 25 years (well, will be 25 | years in August). 256 is inadequate to run anything of consequence on | XP. 512 will work, but 1024 really wakes it up, particularly if | running 2 programs at a time. Takes all the load off the hard drive | (swap file/virtual ram issues). With 256 ram, you WILL wear out the | hard drive. |

How is it that so many people in a home repair group suddenly turn out to build computers for a living? :)

I wouldn't prefer to install 256 MB RAM, of course, and there is an issue these days with bloated software, but

256 MB RAM can work OK on a clean machine where people are doing typical things like Web browsing, email Office docs, etc. If you're worried about wearing out your hard disk then turn off the useless indexing service and either avoid AV or at least don't leave it at default settings, scanning everything you touch. There are lots of software causes of running the disk unnecessarily that have nothing to do with using the swap file.
Reply to
Mayayana

...

None of which may be of any _real_ value, but it doesn't really make any difference, either...just delete anything you don't want (altho w/ _minimum_ enry-level systems supporting 1000 GB drives or larger one is unlikely to ever care that a few MB are taken up. Only real issue ime may be some things in Startup folder you'll want to remove but at least I've seen nothing that would make me refuse to buy from a given vendor for that reason for the advantage of the bundled deal pricing...

This machine is roughly same age as OP's (a Dell) that bought when went out on own consulting back in '99 -- it was decently-middle-to-upper-half at the time. I just added 2GB memory last week to bring it to 4 total and it made a lot of difference w/ the new release of Matlab The Mathworks offered. I've since retired from the consulting gig so there's no incentive/justification for upgrading otherwise so I don't see anything at all against just getting the new drive and perhaps another GB of memory and goin' on. This also is XP and I don't give a hoot about the "end of service life"--it's stable-enough there's no need to change OS.

Reply to
dpb

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