OT computer problems OT

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Well , might not be OT , as it's a "home computer" ...
But anyway , I've installed anti-tracking software , Ghostery , but as soon as I shut the browser down the extension disappears . Apparently something on my comp is preventing this software from remaining ... to use it I have to reload every time I shut the browser (Opers) down then re-open it . Apparently someone doesn't want tracking blocked and is uninstalling this software - I tried another blocker and had the same problem . I'm running XP Pro SP3 on a homebuilt with ASUS mobo , Athlon X2 processor and 2 Gb of RAM . And this is really pissing me off ...
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On 03/23/2016 07:00 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

I am not familiar with Opera, but I know Firefox is another browser with continued support for XP users. They do have a "Ghostery" add-on and it's been my experience that Firefox add-ons do not simply disappear.
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philo wrote:

This has started recently . I had it installed for a while some time ago with no problems . It just really irritates that "somebody" feels they have the right to track me , and that they can block my efforts to prevent it . Big Brother isn't just the gov-goons ...
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| This has started recently . I had it installed for a while some time ago | with no problems . It just really irritates that "somebody" feels they have | the right to track me , and that they can block my efforts to prevent it . | Big Brother isn't just the gov-goons ... |
Did you know that Ghostery does the same thing:
http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/31/ghostery-a-web-tracking-blocker-that-actually-helps-the-ad-industry/
I haven't used it and don't know what might be going on with your machine. Have you checked on what processes you have running? If you run Sysinternals Process Explorer you should be able to make sense of all listings. (Right-click to find the executable path.) There's very little that *needs* to be running.
Maybe a more likely culprit might be compatibility issues. Do you allow automatic updates? That's always an invitation to problems. Example: Mozilla started requiring digital signing of extensions awhile back. Now older extensions won't install. I have no idea about Opera, but that scenario seems possible: Opera updates itself by default. You allow that. Things break without notice.
You might look here if you're interested in really dealing with privacy online:
http://www.jsware.net/jsware/privacytips.php5
A modest HOSTS file that blocks things like Doubleclick, Google analytics and Scorecard Research will eliminate a great deal of tracking. Disable cookies, or only allow session cookies that disappear when the browser is closed. There's no excuse for 3rd-party cookies and there never was. They directly subvert the security model that cookies were intended to follow, which is that no site other than the one you're visiting should be able to access that site cookie. But 3rd-party cookie-setters don't need to hack local cookies. They just set their own at someone else's website! Frames are also a big problem. Frames allow cross-site scritping attacks. Frames allow 1st-party cookies at 3rd-party sites: A Facebook button in a frame looks exactly like a Facebook button not in a frame. But in the former case you're actually visiting facebook.com involuntarily. You're loading a browser window at facebook.com. 3rd-party images are usually ads and/or web bug trackers. (Most tracking script is accompanied by a noscript option to track with a web bug instead.) It's a very complex issue. Ghostery is just giving people the sense that they're getting behind the curtain, while selling them out. Adblock is the same way. I haven't used that one either, but I've seen articles about how they take payments from "respectable" companies to grant them exceptions. The program is free. They make their money by selling you out. Only on the Internet could such bizarre shennanigans work out successfully.
But actually having a modicum of privacy is increasingly challenging. A few examples: Opera is based on Chromium, which is Google spyware.
(See here for details: https://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php )
Has Opera cleaned up the Chromium code? I don't know. The tech world has a strange, irrational history of thinking Google is cute. A surprising number of techies prefer Chrome and don't seem to mind the spying. The same has been true with gmail. It started with techies who were thoroughly suckered by Google's pretense of "inviting" them to try a perennial beta. Once all the techies had gmail, others were convinced it was "cool". How could adware/spyware be "cool"? It just doesn't make sense.
So there are the questions about Opera. Do you allow frames and 3rd-party cookies? If so then Facebook might be following your every move, even if you've never visited their site. Likewise with Twitter. Do you block jquery and Google fonts? If you have a status bar in your browser you'll see those loading at most websites. The story there is a whole separate issue: Most webmasters don't really know much about operating a website and designing pages. At the same time, interactive pages are all the rage. Google fills in some of the gaps by offering free script libraries, free tracking info, free fonts.... They're very clever about that kind of thing. They provide freebies to give webmasters what they want without needing to learn for themselves. The webmasters are thrilled to get free visitor stats or drop-in javascript pizzazz and don't even realize that they're letting Google spy on their visitors. (Or if they do, they don't care. Google's cute.) It's amazing how many pages now have built-in Google tracking. It can be blocked, but it's getting increasingly complex. Downloading fonts has never been safe, anyway. That should be blocked. But before you can do all that you have to know about it. What good is it for Ghostery to block Acme Ads if fonts.google.com, google-analytics.com, etc are receiving an ongoing log of your travels? Acme might not know who you are, but Google probably does. For all we know, Acme might just be a subcontractor selling Google ads.
It gets worse. Akamai, a giant network backbone company that sells capacity, started selling tracking data some time ago. You can't always know when you're at Akamai, and HOSTS files don't seem to block it. You might go to Microsoft.com, but then MS is subcontracting with Akamai to handle traffic, so you end up going through their system. It turns out Akamai wanted to get on the sleazebag bandwagon to make a few extra bucks. How do you stop that? It's like trying to stop a cable company from knowing what TV channel you're watching. You can't prevent the data going through them. The gov't is not likely to rein that in. They're in the same business. With things like PRISM in place, and the AT&T scandal over gov't hacking of the Pacific telephone line, spyware tech companies are just what the fanatic national security beancounters ordered. I see no reason to even consider that Akamai, having already demonstrated dishonesty, might not be selling data to the gov't. They've already shown that they consider that a reasonable business model.
If all of the above seems too complicated then you have no chance at even reasonable privacy. If you're in the middle about it -- you want to act but don't want to live in your cellar surrounded by glowing screens -- you could do a few simple things:
* Have one browser with frames and script disabled. Use it when possible. Also block 3rd-party images if you can tolerate some broken webpages.
* Use NoScript in Firefox to block all but necessary script.
* Only allow session cookies.
* Set up a HOSTS file.
* Install a firewall if you don't have one. On XP I use Online Armor v. 4.0.0.15 free. (They later sold out to another company.) A firewall allows you to stop outgoing traffic that you didn't initiate.
* There's probably no harm in also leaving Ghostery in place, but they're selling you out. I'd consider its use to be counterproductive.
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On 03/23/2016 09:27 AM, Mayayana wrote:

LOL good catch there...just using a private browsing tab might be a better idea, I know with Firefox that's easy to do...
for Opera found this link but it's a few years old
http://forums.opera.com/discussion/1831432/how-do-i-start-opera-in-private-browsing-mode/p1
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| LOL good catch there...just using a private browsing tab might be a | better idea, I know with Firefox that's easy to do... |
I'm not entirely clear about the details of that, but my understanding is that it limits cookies and hides history, so that sites can't do tricky things like check whether you've been to abc.com by providing a hidden link and then checking its color.
But that leaves out pretty much all the real privacy issues with frames, script, web bugs, etc. If the page loads google-analytics script or scorecard research web bugs, for instance, they don't need any tricks to test your history. They already know it, because they tracked you in nearly all of the other pages you've visited. They may not know your specific ID in all cases, but they'll know your IP address.
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On 03/23/2016 12:24 PM, Mayayana wrote:

I suppose if one were really paranoid one could use a proxy server.
Personally, I've been using Linux for all of my on-line transactions... I'd be a fool to think I was 100% secure...but Linux is certainly a bit better than Windows.
That said /they/ probably have most of your personal information anyway.
A few years back I took out a new auto-insurance policy and when I got on the phone I expected I'd have to answer a lot of questions. Nope, they pretty much had all they needed once they knew my name and address.
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| I suppose if one were really paranoid one could use a proxy server. |
That would block some of the tracking. On the other hand, if you accept 3rd-party images and/or cookies it won't help.
| Personally, I've been using Linux for all of my on-line transactions... | I'd be a fool to think I was 100% secure...but Linux is certainly a bit | better than Windows. |
Not in terms of privacy. No difference at all. *Maybe* in terms of javascript attacks.
| | That said /they/ probably have most of your personal information anyway. | | A few years back I took out a new auto-insurance policy and when I got | on the phone I expected I'd have to answer a lot of questions. | Nope, they pretty much had all they needed once they knew my name and | address. |
That's different. There have been companies for years, like LexisNexis, that gather data and sell access to it. Before people were using computers very much, companies like car dealers were using them to decide how to sell to you. People choose not to know that, just as most people have caller ID but still pretend they didn't know who's calling.
What Terry Coombs is talking about is online tracking. To my mind that's a little like cellphone tracking: If you call a car dealer they know a lot about you and your purchasing/credit history. But it's much more personal to have access to what's essentially a tracking collar combined with a social/retail transaction record.
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On 3/23/2016 7:00 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

I tried Ghostery for a while and didn't see much benefit, actually no benefit. But if you want to pursue it.. https://getsatisfaction.com/ghostery
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On 3/23/2016 8:00 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

Don't know but sometimes take such problems to news.mozilla.org
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Frank" <"frank wrote:

Might be an option , if I understand correctly Opera is an offshoot of Firefox . FWIW , I have Ghostery installed on the laptop my wife uses , no problems with that comp .
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wrote:

If you use google, you are tracked anyway. I use an anonymous browser and I authorize cookies as they are being set. Most are set to expire when I close the session. I am very selective about the ones I keep.
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On 03/23/2016 07:48 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
[snip]

Opera is not an offshoot of Firefox. For one thing it is a lot older. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_%28web_browser%29
Modern Opera is more like Chrome (which may mean it's going to be discontinued on XP too).
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Correct about Opera NOT being an offshoot of Firefox.
I tried Opera many years ago, (in the 90's). I tried it a few times in between as their versions grew, and I tried it for the last time around 3 or 4 years ago. I never liked it, I found it had "issues", and one of them was that it did bizarre things, seemed to eat up lots of resources, (power) did not always render pages correctly, and worse of all, tended to crash (all versions).
This is just my opinion based on experience with it, but I would not recommend it. I think it's a crappy browser.
One other thing I remember is that more than once, after I would uninstall it, the icons on my desktop would be all screwed up (scatterred). I dont have any clue why it tampered with my system, but any program that screws up the operating system is not something I care to use.... I know for fact it did that icon screwup on Windows98. I cant recall if it also did that on XP or not. I just decided to never use it again! I think it's poorly written software.
I'd suggest Firefox, or if you want soemthing that's lighter, K-meleon and Seamonkey are both worth trying. (One drawback with Seamonkey, is that there dont appear to be "anyone home", when you try to contact them by email, and their newsgroup did not allow posting, except for "members" and I never could figure out how to become a member. Now their newsgroup is dead.)
One other thing. If you're running XP on an older computer, I'd install an older version of Firefox. The newer ones seem to use a lot of resources, at least when I tried version 30 or 32 (cant recall exact number). I went back to Firefox 18, which works fine on my older laptop with XP Sp3. Although I like Firefox, I often think they upgrade far too often.... I think the latest version is 40something.
Older version of FF are available on www.oldapps.com That's a nice site, which dont try to mislead you to download other crap, and their advertising is minimal. Their software is not loaded with malware either, nor do they have you download an "installer", and then that installer supposedly installs the program (One practice I refuse to use).
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On 03/23/2016 03:07 PM, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moo wrote:
[snip]

Do you remember the version number? It's those after 12.x (they skipped 13) that look like Chrome (maybe because Opera started using the same browser engine as Chrome).

Yes. I thought it had the POTENTIAL to become a good browser. Failed potential.

Seamonkey uses the Gecko browser engine, like Firefox. BTW, I've used Firefox since v0.8, the first version to be called Firefox.

Currently 45. They put out a new version about every 6 weeks.

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How to Get Updates for Windows XP from Microsoft until 2019 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPo3eF0RsvA
it's really easy and if you don't want to upgrade to newer versions of windows or move to linux it's better than nothing. I miss winxp, I really do. Somethings are better when they are improved, somethings aren't. For me Win10 would just be a big waste of time and money. Oh hell, while I'm at it, Linux stuff...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTfabOKD7Yty6sDF4POBVqA

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| Older version of FF are available on | www.oldapps.com
Also:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/
If there's any trouble with that link, try this one:
http://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/
Altough the Mozilla people have long been acting like a commercial company, bent on profits and trying hard to herd Firefox users into the hands of their ad-company handlers (first Google and now Yahoo), Firefox is still officially open source and all builds are available.
Side note: The development of open source has gone through interesting turns lately. It started out that most OSS was rough, unfinished, and often needed to be compiled. It was more a conversation between geeks than it was software. As OSS becomes more common and more polished, it's also becoming more commercial and more opaque. Firefox and Chromium are both OSS, as is WebKit. (And for that matter, Android.) So all browsers except IE are technically open source. Yet choice is very limited and "improvements" tend to be in the direction of profiteering rather than making the best product. I now need 6-8 plugins just to make FF what it was a couple of years ago. And I'm running v. 36. I've hesitated to update for years now. I never know what they'll break next. It's much worse for most people. Anyone not intimately familiar with about:config and extensions is likely to be stuck with whatever the Mozilla people put on their plate.
I'm imagining that whenever Linux Torvalds steps down it may be only weeks before the top brass at Linux "discover" that what people really want is an ad platform built into the kernel. :)
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On 3/23/2016 8:48 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

They will discuss other browser concerns. Most there seem to be a mix of Mozilla workers, computer people and non-computer people.
Just don't post through GG as they might get flagged out.
I don't bother with things like anonymous browsing but do delete all but certain cookies on exit. ad blocker keeps some sites from letting me go there but screw them.
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AdblockPlus, not the same thing, has to be disabled for me to go to the LATimes crossword puzzle site, but the Washington Post crossword puzzle site, which looks almost the same including the function menu, doesn't require disabling.
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| AdblockPlus, not the same thing, has to be disabled for me to go to | the LATimes crossword puzzle site, but the Washington Post crossword | puzzle site, which looks almost the same including the function menu, | doesn't require disabling.
A lot of sites are now "sniffing" for that. It's also selling out its customers. you'd probably be better off to just use a HOSTS file. I rarely see ads, but neither do sites block me.
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