On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 5:26:56 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:
He can probably find a more modern used XP box on Ebay for not
much money. Or as others have suggested, the local second hand
store. I'd find the pinouts for the PS and check to see if the
voltages are there. And if he just has data on the drive he wants
to save and doesn't really need the PC, that can be done in a
variety of ways.
The current off lease machines will be W/7 and can be had for $40 and
up but a 3gz dual core with a decent amount of RAM and a big drive are
more like $100
I would not buy a lap top unless I wanted it to be portable or unless
it was used as a server or something where being a one piece is handy.
I usually want a separate keyboard and display for a desk top machine.
I carry a BT mouse and a cable that will hook my laptop to the hotel
TV when I travel.
Laptops are miserable if you ever have to fix it. The parts are all
proprietary and they are a pain in the ass to take apart. Desk tops
tend to be off the shelf parts.
I'll probably be forced to go that route - used or re-furb tower -
- to retreive my hard drive data and to have a second computer.
- are the hard drive cables likely to be the same ?
I already have a laptop - it's my main everyday computer
| I'll probably be forced to go that route - used or re-furb tower -
| - to retreive my hard drive data and to have a second computer.
| - are the hard drive cables likely to be the same ?
Your old one is probably IDE, a long plug
with about 40 holes. New ones are are SATA,
which has a small plug and a slightly L-shaped
connection. You can buy adaptors and
enclosures to adapt IDE to USB.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2016 19:12:11 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Do you have SATA or IDE deive? IDE ius pretty much history - you can
still get IDE/USB adapters but IDE on board is very rare.
If your XP was a retail package, not OEM, the chances are pretty good
that a newer computer ( more than 3 or 4 years old) will actually boot
from the old drive - you may need to download some drivers to get it
fully functional. The newer computers do not use a full hardware bios,
and will NOT boot from an older drive.
Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:09:29 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Uhh, no. The only way you're going to swap drives and have the other
machine boot instead of bluescreen is either by:
(a) editing registry hive beforehand, removing references to hardware
components so that windows will redetect them; The system hive
specifically on Windows XP. You don't have to reload your OS if you
do this, you're just removing it's record of the hardware present.
It'll boot and rebuild the record based on hardware detection it's
going to perform.
(b) the chipset is a close enough match to the aforementioned
registry hive details. It'll boot in this manner as well, but,
stability could be an issue down the road. Close enough is a fine
It makes no difference retail or oem and doesn't matter about the
BIOS either so much. It matters that the hardware the registry hive
knows about is a close match to what the machine has at the mainboard
level; chipset specifically. It's the price you pay for plug and play
based OSes. Hardware detection and a 'record' of what they detected.
The record has to either be a close if not outright match at the
mainboard level, or, it has to be cleared so the OS can create a new
Btw, you can take a single XP disc and swap four files to convert it
to retail, oem, or vendor specific. four files determine this;
everything else on that disc is identical to the byte.
Stick to your electrical knowledge clare, IT isn't something you're
an expert in, clearly.
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 6:34:00 PM UTC-4, email@example.com wrote:
I agree on the desktop versus notebook. Unless you need the portability,
you get more bang for the buck with a desktop and service or upgrading
is easy. Same thing with those sleek Apple iMacs. You pay a premium and
everything is packed into the display. Maybe you can take it apart to
DIY repair, but I wouldn't count on it. And if you need portability,
then a tablet is a possible solution too.
I had a hard drive give warnings of impending failure on my mini-tower.
I opted to replace it with a flash drive. Took just a few minutes and
I had it in. I doubt you could do that with one of those iMac things
or a notebook. It's now super fast, 20 secs to boot and I'm happy.
I have to disagree , I find laptops quite easy to work on . Some of parts
ARE proprietary , but not terribly hard to find . Most of my experience has
been with older Toshiba Satellites and one Dell . I've used the directions
found with a web search , one tip that really helps is to use egg cartons
for the small screws/parts - and number each cell with the step number of
the directions .
On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 7:05:49 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
I would have to disagree, the keyboard and display (and other) cable connec
tors are very delicate and have a limited number of cycles to work properly
. Can the average person do it, maybe if you watch a youtube of it a few ti
mes. I would suspect you a more bragging than recommending...it's not for t
he average PC nerd.
I have worked on both for over 2 decades - on a fairly regular basis
- and I'll work on desktop or tower PCs over laptops ot all-in-ones
any day of the year. Thoe AllInOne units are even worse than laptops -
and a lot of laptops today need to be totally dissassembled to even
add additional RAM. "They don't make 'em like they used to" in the
case of laptops is NOT a good thing - unlike with automobiles.
Mon, 01 Aug 2016 22:33:38 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
You don't know how many hours of runtime is already on the drive nor
it's SMART status. It could already have one or more bad sectors with
more coming. Just depends on its history, quality of components and
how well it was maintained. If the previous owner smoked near it,
it's entirely possible the box's cooling systems haven't been doing
their job for a long time now. If it's AMD powered, it might even
have processor damage at this point the user may not be aware of.
They may have been dismissing the occasional windows crash as
something to do with the OS itself, vs, hardware issues. I specified
AMD because they're still not so great with self preservation
shutdown in the event they exceed safe operating temp range. Intels
have done better in that dept for years. Buyer beware when purchasing
a used machine...
I wouldn't use a laptop as a server. They aren't designed to run 24/7
non stop. Due to their small size, cooling issues come into play. Not
including the small form HD present in them, it's really not intended
to be in service 24/7 either.
Laptops depending on make/model can be a royal SOB to tear down,
sure. Some aren't that bad though. Not all of the components inside
are proprietary either. Even if it looks that way at first glance.
The removable wifi/bluetooth cards can often be used with other
latops by different makers. Same with the ram, HDs, optical drive and
some keyboards/video display panels. They are, for the most part,
As far as desktops tending to be off the shelf parts, you have to be
careful here too; if it's a name brand machine, it may/may not be
using a proprietary PSU and/or ram. IE: it might look to be ATX
standard, but, upon closer inspection you find some wires which carry
different voltages are in the wrong place. Dell was especially bad
about that. If you tried to use an off the shelf PSU in one of those
machines, you'd toast it when you tried to fire it up. Likewise if
you assumed the ram was normal in those cases. Put a standard stick
you got locally or kingston, crucial, etc, bye bye mainboard and
possibly that standard ram stick too. The mainboard didn't have an
'oh shit, user connected wrong part' mode. It would fry, no going
There's a big difference between someone who piddles around with
computers and one who's done it professionally for a living, for a
long time. The former really should be careful what advice they
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
I have been using an old Dell Latitude W/98 lap top for a server for
about 15 years with no problems. I have it sitting up on blocks so it
has free air on the bottom but other than that nothing special.
Dell was the offender but the start line on a Dell PS was not #14 so
nothing happens when you plug it into another PC and vice versa when
you plug a standard PS into a dell.
Thu, 20 Oct 2016 21:01:40 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:
It's not doing anything that actually keeps it busy for any real
length of time, then, right? Mostly idling? Old processor not
actually mobile if memory serves, but the same thing a desktop box
would be using at the time - which compared to the cpus of today,
doesn't run nearly as hot, even if you got it busy to 100% load and
left it there. Would you care to share more specs about it?
Windows 98? So.. are you having to reset it once every 49.7 days? Or,
did you provide the patch to correct the issue?
You wouldn't seriously suggest someone take a modern laptop and run
it as a dedicated server that gets more than very occasional use
would you? You should know! the machine isn't built to do that and
won't last for too long doing it. Setting aside the point, modern
laptops even at 'idle' these days in a confined space are more like a
toaster oven than that old Latitude.
I get the impression it's essentially a small file server for other
computers on your network? Do you still have netbios binded to
TCP/IP? If so, you might want to alter the configuration so it's not.
While it's unlikely someone is going to breach your router's
firewall, the possibility does exist and, you wouldn't want to make
the win98 box easy pickings in that event.
You're incorrect, but, don't take my word for it. See here:
Dell wasn't the only one to have pulled this nonsense either.. to
their credit. HP/Compaq (before Compaq became HP) did it too. pbell
was notoriously bad about things like this. Had to be extremely
careful with them.
Ouch. Do you atleast have a certification under your belt, or, are
you one of those shady tree mechanic types? Don't get me wrong, some
shady tree mechanics do a fine job of working on and upgrading some
of my older vehicles. But, if I had something 'new' that was decked
out with sensors and multiple ECMs, I wouldn't be taking it to them.
Not when I have to show them how to use the modern devices that let
them talk to the cars computer, anyhow. Otherwise, they've done great
service work for me.
I've got just over twenty something years (going from 18years old)
doing it professionally, myself. By professional, I actually mean
certifications, etc and real world, hands on experience in the trade.
Not that of shady tree style, either. If i'm putting my name on it,
it's going to be tight, it's going to be right.
At one point, during my schooling in Maine, we had a test known as
the BEAM test. Several new england states participated in it, once
per year. It consisted of 100 questions concerning different aspects
of the PC. You were graded on the amount of questions you got right
as well as the time it took you to do it. I scored first place, both
years I took the test. Not for my state mind you, but for the entire
geographical area. First place.
Had I known what my 'sending' school had in mind for me, I would have
skipped class both times. I didn't appreciate being paraded in front
of the student body to accept an award for essentially being a
computer geek. It wasn't 'cool' then to know much about a PC...
Nor did I appreciate various news media outlets being present to film
the award ceremony. I had no idea this was the result of doing well
the first time I took it. The second time, due to the flu, I wasn't
present for them to do that to me. I got the paper when I returned to
I began 'piddling' around age 5. before PC was a common thing to be
found in your household. Apple II (green screen) and later, my first
computer that I actually owned; tandy color computer three. (the last
in the Coco family) My first PC was actually a Tandy 3000NL powered
by an Intel x86 286 (10megahertz) I ran a BBS from it; Spitfire.
Using nothing more than a single high density 1.44meg floppy disk.
That was the same disc used to boot the computer, btw. It averaged
roughly 30 or so callers per day, which wasn't bad considering the
tiny town (New Gloucester, Maine) I lived in at the time. Ever since
then though, I've owned (as in paid for) monster clones I bought
myself. I do own a few name brand laptops, though. But, they were
given to me. or, I traded 'computer time' (Ie: I fixed something they
owned) for one- Which was a good deal for them because something was
wrong with the laptop and they were going to junk it anyhow. [g]
I wouldn't actually use any of them to run say a web server that
actually gets visitors, or, an sql server that actually gets queries
for any real length of time though. I'd be concerned about premature
hardware failure due to overheating and abuse. They are laptops, not
designed to be 24/7 machines. Portability is a trade off.
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
Are you sure? I'm a user of this newsgroup and my servers are pounded
on a routine basis on this LAN. They aren't laptops, though. :)
Oh.. wait, DSL.. lol... that's another beastie and not anywhere near
as secure as you probably think it is. Do you have WPS enabled? Are
you using the modem/router combo your ISP provided you? Which
make/model might it be?
How's that? It's pin 11 on some older Dells, where as the standard is
pin #14, you'll also notice, pins 1-3 is 5volts for a Dell, and 3.3
for a standard configuration. The 12 volt pins, positive and negative
were changed from standard configuration too; so it most certainly
would toast the board and/or PSU and possibly other components
attached to the mainboard.
Pin #14 on a non standard Dell was common (negative) not positive, so
it would look dead if you just did a quick check with a multimeter.
On the standard ATX pin out, it's PS start. Short to any negative (or
common) and the PS will usually fire up. Unless it expects to see a
load, then it may not remain on but it will initially fire.
You will have to keep the connection established to keep the PSU
going, though. Disconnecting once it powers up will cause the PSU to
turn back off; although it's not really off in the true sense of the
word, as it's ATX.
You lucked out, then. The only reason it couldn't start the power
supply was because the PS hot line was never connected to ground in
the configuration they used. Had it been, and anything else wasn't
standard, you'd have toasted it. No going back, no starting over.
Magic smoke would have been released and you know how that goes.
You can't feed a 5volt circuit 12 volts (possibly reverse polarity)
and not expect something bad to happen. There's no 'stupid user
safety' circuit like you'd find in a mobile CB radio. IE: no diode to
go pop if you reversed polarity by accident.
I see. So, you weren't actually what we'd call a bench technician or
a 'tech in the trenches' so to speak. That would explain why you
didn't know about the pin configuration differences... It's not
something someone in your field would expect to be dealing with.
Everything was pretty much the same in your world, replace parts as
needed, possibly modify a configuration file if needbe. Am I close?
I'm not trying to be condescending nor rude with you.
Well, do be careful piddling around. :) And congrats on living to see
retirement. I hope it's a good experience for you!
Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you.
WPS2, not WPS but the WiFi is separate from my network anyway. I only
have WiFi for guests.
I was a (field) support specialist. That is about as deep in the
trench as you get. I bailed out the techs who couldn't fix things.
I chose to get out of the business when it became "cut open the box
and plug in a new one". I worked at the component level for most of my
career on stuff a whole lot more complex than a PC. The processor
alone might have 1000 cards in it. RAM was core, 2 meg disk drives
were the size of a washing machine and leaked oil on the floor.
Toward the end I got into Physical Planning (in Florida that is mostly
lightning protection), connectivity and structured wiring.
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