OT computer issue

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On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 5:26:56 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

He can probably find a more modern used XP box on Ebay for not much money. Or as others have suggested, the local second hand store. I'd find the pinouts for the PS and check to see if the voltages are there. And if he just has data on the drive he wants to save and doesn't really need the PC, that can be done in a variety of ways.
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On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 14:53:10 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

The current off lease machines will be W/7 and can be had for $40 and up but a 3gz dual core with a decent amount of RAM and a big drive are more like $100 I would not buy a lap top unless I wanted it to be portable or unless it was used as a server or something where being a one piece is handy. I usually want a separate keyboard and display for a desk top machine. I carry a BT mouse and a cable that will hook my laptop to the hotel TV when I travel. Laptops are miserable if you ever have to fix it. The parts are all proprietary and they are a pain in the ass to take apart. Desk tops tend to be off the shelf parts.
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I'll probably be forced to go that route - used or re-furb tower - - to retreive my hard drive data and to have a second computer. - are the hard drive cables likely to be the same ? I already have a laptop - it's my main everyday computer John T.
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| I'll probably be forced to go that route - used or re-furb tower - | - to retreive my hard drive data and to have a second computer. | - are the hard drive cables likely to be the same ?
Your old one is probably IDE, a long plug with about 40 holes. New ones are are SATA, which has a small plug and a slightly L-shaped connection. You can buy adaptors and enclosures to adapt IDE to USB.
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Mayayana wrote:

SATA was pretty common 10 years ago . This desktop (ASUS M2A-VM MOBO) was built 13 years ago , has 4 SATA and 2 IDE ports (for a total of 4 IDE devices) .
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On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:48:31 -0400, "Mayayana"

You can even get adapters to connect IDE to SATA.. Some actually even work - - -
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On Mon, 01 Aug 2016 19:12:11 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Do you have SATA or IDE deive? IDE ius pretty much history - you can still get IDE/USB adapters but IDE on board is very rare.
If your XP was a retail package, not OEM, the chances are pretty good that a newer computer ( more than 3 or 4 years old) will actually boot from the old drive - you may need to download some drivers to get it fully functional. The newer computers do not use a full hardware bios, and will NOT boot from an older drive.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:09:29 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Uhh, no. The only way you're going to swap drives and have the other machine boot instead of bluescreen is either by:
(a) editing registry hive beforehand, removing references to hardware components so that windows will redetect them; The system hive specifically on Windows XP. You don't have to reload your OS if you do this, you're just removing it's record of the hardware present. It'll boot and rebuild the record based on hardware detection it's going to perform.
or
(b) the chipset is a close enough match to the aforementioned registry hive details. It'll boot in this manner as well, but, stability could be an issue down the road. Close enough is a fine line.
It makes no difference retail or oem and doesn't matter about the BIOS either so much. It matters that the hardware the registry hive knows about is a close match to what the machine has at the mainboard level; chipset specifically. It's the price you pay for plug and play based OSes. Hardware detection and a 'record' of what they detected. The record has to either be a close if not outright match at the mainboard level, or, it has to be cleared so the OS can create a new record.
Btw, you can take a single XP disc and swap four files to convert it to retail, oem, or vendor specific. four files determine this; everything else on that disc is identical to the byte.
Stick to your electrical knowledge clare, IT isn't something you're an expert in, clearly.
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On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 6:34:00 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I agree on the desktop versus notebook. Unless you need the portability, you get more bang for the buck with a desktop and service or upgrading is easy. Same thing with those sleek Apple iMacs. You pay a premium and everything is packed into the display. Maybe you can take it apart to DIY repair, but I wouldn't count on it. And if you need portability, then a tablet is a possible solution too.
I had a hard drive give warnings of impending failure on my mini-tower. I opted to replace it with a flash drive. Took just a few minutes and I had it in. I doubt you could do that with one of those iMac things or a notebook. It's now super fast, 20 secs to boot and I'm happy.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I have to disagree , I find laptops quite easy to work on . Some of parts ARE proprietary , but not terribly hard to find . Most of my experience has been with older Toshiba Satellites and one Dell . I've used the directions found with a web search , one tip that really helps is to use egg cartons for the small screws/parts - and number each cell with the step number of the directions .
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Not as easy as towers
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wrote:

Yup
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On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 7:05:49 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:

rts

as

s



I would have to disagree, the keyboard and display (and other) cable connec tors are very delicate and have a limited number of cycles to work properly . Can the average person do it, maybe if you watch a youtube of it a few ti mes. I would suspect you a more bragging than recommending...it's not for t he average PC nerd.
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wrote:

I have worked on both for over 2 decades - on a fairly regular basis - and I'll work on desktop or tower PCs over laptops ot all-in-ones any day of the year. Thoe AllInOne units are even worse than laptops - and a lot of laptops today need to be totally dissassembled to even add additional RAM. "They don't make 'em like they used to" in the case of laptops is NOT a good thing - unlike with automobiles.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com posted for all of us...

+1 on that. Plus the screens are attached and they break and another PIA to r&r. The plastic ages and what is supposed to release just breaks and ...
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com Mon, 01 Aug 2016 22:33:38 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You don't know how many hours of runtime is already on the drive nor it's SMART status. It could already have one or more bad sectors with more coming. Just depends on its history, quality of components and how well it was maintained. If the previous owner smoked near it, it's entirely possible the box's cooling systems haven't been doing their job for a long time now. If it's AMD powered, it might even have processor damage at this point the user may not be aware of. They may have been dismissing the occasional windows crash as something to do with the OS itself, vs, hardware issues. I specified AMD because they're still not so great with self preservation shutdown in the event they exceed safe operating temp range. Intels have done better in that dept for years. Buyer beware when purchasing a used machine...

I wouldn't use a laptop as a server. They aren't designed to run 24/7 non stop. Due to their small size, cooling issues come into play. Not including the small form HD present in them, it's really not intended to be in service 24/7 either.

Laptops depending on make/model can be a royal SOB to tear down, sure. Some aren't that bad though. Not all of the components inside are proprietary either. Even if it looks that way at first glance. The removable wifi/bluetooth cards can often be used with other latops by different makers. Same with the ram, HDs, optical drive and some keyboards/video display panels. They are, for the most part, actually standard.
As far as desktops tending to be off the shelf parts, you have to be careful here too; if it's a name brand machine, it may/may not be using a proprietary PSU and/or ram. IE: it might look to be ATX standard, but, upon closer inspection you find some wires which carry different voltages are in the wrong place. Dell was especially bad about that. If you tried to use an off the shelf PSU in one of those machines, you'd toast it when you tried to fire it up. Likewise if you assumed the ram was normal in those cases. Put a standard stick you got locally or kingston, crucial, etc, bye bye mainboard and possibly that standard ram stick too. The mainboard didn't have an 'oh shit, user connected wrong part' mode. It would fry, no going back.
There's a big difference between someone who piddles around with computers and one who's done it professionally for a living, for a long time. The former really should be careful what advice they offer.
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wrote:

I have been using an old Dell Latitude W/98 lap top for a server for about 15 years with no problems. I have it sitting up on blocks so it has free air on the bottom but other than that nothing special.

Dell was the offender but the start line on a Dell PS was not #14 so nothing happens when you plug it into another PC and vice versa when you plug a standard PS into a dell.

30 years working on them and 20 piddling.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com Thu, 20 Oct 2016 21:01:40 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

It's not doing anything that actually keeps it busy for any real length of time, then, right? Mostly idling? Old processor not actually mobile if memory serves, but the same thing a desktop box would be using at the time - which compared to the cpus of today, doesn't run nearly as hot, even if you got it busy to 100% load and left it there. Would you care to share more specs about it?
Windows 98? So.. are you having to reset it once every 49.7 days? Or, did you provide the patch to correct the issue?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/216641
You wouldn't seriously suggest someone take a modern laptop and run it as a dedicated server that gets more than very occasional use would you? You should know! the machine isn't built to do that and won't last for too long doing it. Setting aside the point, modern laptops even at 'idle' these days in a confined space are more like a toaster oven than that old Latitude.
I get the impression it's essentially a small file server for other computers on your network? Do you still have netbios binded to TCP/IP? If so, you might want to alter the configuration so it's not. While it's unlikely someone is going to breach your router's firewall, the possibility does exist and, you wouldn't want to make the win98 box easy pickings in that event.

You're incorrect, but, don't take my word for it. See here:
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p39053 http://www.smps.us/power-connectors.html
Dell wasn't the only one to have pulled this nonsense either.. to their credit. HP/Compaq (before Compaq became HP) did it too. pbell was notoriously bad about things like this. Had to be extremely careful with them.

Ouch. Do you atleast have a certification under your belt, or, are you one of those shady tree mechanic types? Don't get me wrong, some shady tree mechanics do a fine job of working on and upgrading some of my older vehicles. But, if I had something 'new' that was decked out with sensors and multiple ECMs, I wouldn't be taking it to them. Not when I have to show them how to use the modern devices that let them talk to the cars computer, anyhow. Otherwise, they've done great service work for me.
I've got just over twenty something years (going from 18years old) doing it professionally, myself. By professional, I actually mean certifications, etc and real world, hands on experience in the trade. Not that of shady tree style, either. If i'm putting my name on it, it's going to be tight, it's going to be right.
At one point, during my schooling in Maine, we had a test known as the BEAM test. Several new england states participated in it, once per year. It consisted of 100 questions concerning different aspects of the PC. You were graded on the amount of questions you got right as well as the time it took you to do it. I scored first place, both years I took the test. Not for my state mind you, but for the entire geographical area. First place.
Had I known what my 'sending' school had in mind for me, I would have skipped class both times. I didn't appreciate being paraded in front of the student body to accept an award for essentially being a computer geek. It wasn't 'cool' then to know much about a PC...
Nor did I appreciate various news media outlets being present to film the award ceremony. I had no idea this was the result of doing well the first time I took it. The second time, due to the flu, I wasn't present for them to do that to me. I got the paper when I returned to school. :)
I began 'piddling' around age 5. before PC was a common thing to be found in your household. Apple II (green screen) and later, my first computer that I actually owned; tandy color computer three. (the last in the Coco family) My first PC was actually a Tandy 3000NL powered by an Intel x86 286 (10megahertz) I ran a BBS from it; Spitfire. Using nothing more than a single high density 1.44meg floppy disk. That was the same disc used to boot the computer, btw. It averaged roughly 30 or so callers per day, which wasn't bad considering the tiny town (New Gloucester, Maine) I lived in at the time. Ever since then though, I've owned (as in paid for) monster clones I bought myself. I do own a few name brand laptops, though. But, they were given to me. or, I traded 'computer time' (Ie: I fixed something they owned) for one- Which was a good deal for them because something was wrong with the laptop and they were going to junk it anyhow. [g]
I wouldn't actually use any of them to run say a web server that actually gets visitors, or, an sql server that actually gets queries for any real length of time though. I'd be concerned about premature hardware failure due to overheating and abuse. They are laptops, not designed to be 24/7 machines. Portability is a trade off.
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wrote:

I must have because it runs for a year or more at a time and the boot is just because I am doing something else.

I doubt anyone on alt.home.repair is hitting any server that hard.

It is tougher than just cracking the DSL router address translation here.

They still never explained how they got the PS started. The start line was on a dead voltage pin. I do know I have plugged a Dell supply into an IBM board and it did absolutely nothing.

30 years IBM hardware (going all the way back to when mainframes were in half acre glass houses and up through about a thousand PCs under contract) I retired and have 20 years piddling.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com

Are you sure? I'm a user of this newsgroup and my servers are pounded on a routine basis on this LAN. They aren't laptops, though. :)

Oh.. wait, DSL.. lol... that's another beastie and not anywhere near as secure as you probably think it is. Do you have WPS enabled? Are you using the modem/router combo your ISP provided you? Which make/model might it be?

How's that? It's pin 11 on some older Dells, where as the standard is pin #14, you'll also notice, pins 1-3 is 5volts for a Dell, and 3.3 for a standard configuration. The 12 volt pins, positive and negative were changed from standard configuration too; so it most certainly would toast the board and/or PSU and possibly other components attached to the mainboard.

Pin #14 on a non standard Dell was common (negative) not positive, so it would look dead if you just did a quick check with a multimeter. On the standard ATX pin out, it's PS start. Short to any negative (or common) and the PS will usually fire up. Unless it expects to see a load, then it may not remain on but it will initially fire.
You will have to keep the connection established to keep the PSU going, though. Disconnecting once it powers up will cause the PSU to turn back off; although it's not really off in the true sense of the word, as it's ATX.

You lucked out, then. The only reason it couldn't start the power supply was because the PS hot line was never connected to ground in the configuration they used. Had it been, and anything else wasn't standard, you'd have toasted it. No going back, no starting over. Magic smoke would have been released and you know how that goes. You can't feed a 5volt circuit 12 volts (possibly reverse polarity) and not expect something bad to happen. There's no 'stupid user safety' circuit like you'd find in a mobile CB radio. IE: no diode to go pop if you reversed polarity by accident.

I see. So, you weren't actually what we'd call a bench technician or a 'tech in the trenches' so to speak. That would explain why you didn't know about the pin configuration differences... It's not something someone in your field would expect to be dealing with.
Everything was pretty much the same in your world, replace parts as needed, possibly modify a configuration file if needbe. Am I close? I'm not trying to be condescending nor rude with you.

Well, do be careful piddling around. :) And congrats on living to see retirement. I hope it's a good experience for you!
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wrote:

WPS2, not WPS but the WiFi is separate from my network anyway. I only have WiFi for guests.

I was a (field) support specialist. That is about as deep in the trench as you get. I bailed out the techs who couldn't fix things. I chose to get out of the business when it became "cut open the box and plug in a new one". I worked at the component level for most of my career on stuff a whole lot more complex than a PC. The processor alone might have 1000 cards in it. RAM was core, 2 meg disk drives were the size of a washing machine and leaked oil on the floor. Toward the end I got into Physical Planning (in Florida that is mostly lightning protection), connectivity and structured wiring.
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