OT: College is a rip off

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On 10/20/2011 10:49 AM, Steve B wrote:

world: "cannot control themselves" versus can "control" themselves does not exist. I don't even think Ghandi was always able to "control" himself. There is an almost infinite spectrum between poor self-control and good self-control.
And, doesn't creativity require a certain amount of absence of self-control? The highly self-controlled person is not likely to think for himself because he is hard wired to be obedient to authority and is subliminally if not consciously fearful of how to respond if an unfamiliar situation is encountered. A good robot perhaps, but not a creative problem solver.
It is hard to engage you in dialogue because clearly you are HIGHLY self-controlled and can not imagine alternate positions to the ones you profess. You will accuse me of being equally set in my beliefs that contradict yours and we will get nowhere. Neither one of us will ever convince the other. I guess that's OK if we both share the belief that we should live and let live as long as we do not impose our beliefs on each other's space. However, if one of us believes that the other is so sick and misguided that the other doesn't deserve the autonomy to make a choice that really does not affect his space, that's when the real conflict arises.
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That is the atithesis of "self" control - to be controlled by others - or even what others think - or what you think others think.

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Your "conflict" is imaginary. And judging by your fairy tale rhetoric, I can understand you must live in a highly imaginative state. Now buzz off.
Steve
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On Oct 20, 9:44 pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Self control is another way of saying discipline, and something controlled is constrained. People in the military are normally thought to have a lot of discipline, a lot of self control and a lot of constraints.
Peter's premise, while overly broad, is still valid, as is yours. You're both just looking at it from the opposite ends of the tube.
R
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Peter I am surprised that you feel that way. Of course people can control everything in the world. It's quite clear. Tony Robbins does it on an hourly basis.
People that can control everything don't have health problems, don't get divorced, don't have people they love get killed in car accidents or Iraq, can control the voting process, elections, large scale economic conditions, create money at will as necessary, and - my personal favorite - inherently know the strengths and pitfalls of all of their DNA (including the "junk" DNA that is largely stymieing the finest scientific brains in the world) and can easily avoid said pitfalls. Like dying. It's really trivial stuff for someone truly in control.
You are arguing with someone that believes he can control everything in his life, or is at least proclaiming such to bolster his world view. You know - delusional.
Believing that any person exists outside their environment, and is largely immune to it, is a specious argument.
R
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On 10/20/2011 11:12 AM, RicodJour wrote:

Thanks for the validation. Do you think Steve will get your sarcasm in the first paragraph of your reply immediately above? I suspect he will take it literally and interpret your reply as an endorsement of his position.
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 02:07:30 -0400, "Robert Green"

Actually I think it is more like, when the species is stressed it throws mutations and birds are born with all sorts of different beaks and other mutations. The ones that work best with the available food or other environmental factors survive and the rest die out.
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<stuff snipped>
<<Read Darwin's Radio if you haven't already. Fiction, but written by a Caltech professor, and good stuff.>>
I'll look for it.

<Yep, that National Geographic program on dogs was excellent.>
I thought it was NOVA's "Dogs by Design." I'm sure there's a lot of overlap between the two. I think it was the one that had the border collie that could recognize and fetch 1,000 different dog toys by name - or by being shown a picture of a similar item. My dog can recognize about 10 different objects by name and if one's not available, she'll bring ALL of the others.

<<That's where you'd be wrong. That's like saying that your car's computer is just storage space since you don't have conscious access to it.>>
I may not have phrased that well. Your PC has a lot of different subunits. GPU's, math-specific components, audio components, storage component, "short term" memory components, pattern matching components, I/O components, etc. They're not all active at the same time. Most often, the PC is sitting there in an endless loop waiting for a key to be pressed. )-:
Just looking at FMRI's that show which part of the brain "lights up" indicate that processing takes places in different areas of the brain that move around according to the task at hand. The FMRI's only light up a very large portion of the brain in people with schizophrenia, IIRC. What I am trying to say is that only 5% of the entire brain in functioning at one time, but it's an ever-changing 5%, depending on the task at hand.
-- Bobby G.
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:07:20 -0400, "Robert Green"

Here's a simple method to measure a dog's smarts - fast. Tease it with a biscuit, then put it on the floor and quickly cover it with an opaque plastic bowl. My late smart dog wasn't fooled. If she couldn't nose the bowl over she'd smack it with paws until it flipped. With my 2 current dumb dogs, when the bowl goes over the biscuit, it has disappeared to them. No further interest at all.
My late smart dog was easily trained. Played in strings section of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until she refused to put on her disguise any more. Just letting all know unless their dog can beat that I don't want hear their dog stories. Have to say "sit" twice for one of my dumb dogs, and about 4 times for the other. Love them all the same once they're house-trained. But my smart dog was devious and would play me. Out-smarted me more than once. Especially with crossword puzzles.
--Vic
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Your dumb dogs have outsmarted you, too. They've trained you to say sit two or four times. ;)
My dog would eat McDonald's fries but wouldn't touch Burger King fries. I stopped eating Burger King fries after that. Never had the chance to ask him about his take on the whole cholesterol and trans fat thing.
R
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:38:15 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Many times I wish that was true (-:

"Fetch me some fries" Arf arf.
--Vic
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On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 15:30:59 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

My little one is a nipper. Now I make her sit down first. She can't jump at my fingers that way.
--Vic
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On 10/21/2011 1:38 PM, RicodJour wrote:

Your dog is right. BK fries are NASTY. Dunno what the crap is they dip them in at factory, but they don't even taste like potatoes.
--
aem sends...

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On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 15:04:07 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Good one.
--Vic
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wrote:

My favorite dog observation: If you think dogs can't count, take two biscuits out of the box and only give them one.

Regrettably our dog has trained us. I yelled at her for scooting her butt on the living room carpet. Now, when she wants my attention when I'm busy it's a veritable scoot-fest. She's been offered a job in the Obama adminstration. Hey, how bad could she be compared to some of them?
I managed to train her to whizz in one side of the dual slop sink and poop on an old 16x20 photo tray lined with newspaper. I cut up an old box fan grille so she doesn't stand in her own piss, although I probably don't need it - she's figured out how the sink slopes and points her head in the far corner and her butt right over the drain. When there's two feet of snow outside it's nice not to have to suit up like a lunar explorer just to empty the dog. You should have seen the beginning efforts when I tried to train her with both cat litter and dog litter. Terriers are instinctive diggers. You can guess the rest.
She's lying on the bed next to me, having one hell of a twitchy dream. We started letting her sleep at the very foot of the bad, and day by day she's advanced upward just an inch or two until she's within head-scratching distance. She apparently believes that crawling slowly forward is an acceptable exception to the "stay" rule.
-- Bobby G.
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Peter wrote:

Uh, yeah.
After Katrina, a number of folks got relocated to Salt Lake City, Wichita, Reno, and other places without a tradition of living off the dole for generations. The common refrain was: "All I gots to do is stand behind the counter and make Slurpees? And I gets PAID for it? Damn! Dat's cool!"
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WOW! Are you psychic, or just psychotic? Change a few words here and there, and that's me. My Mom ran off with a truck driver, leaving Dad to raise my sis and me in a 8 x 35 "trailer". Now they call them "manufactured homes". Dad was okay when he wasn't working, down at the bar, or somewhere we didn't know where he was.
I had two great role models. I knew what I DIDN'T want to grow up to be like.
Funny, but I believe there are many millionaires, billionaires, or just plain "rich folks", as Barry bigotedry calls them, who came from situations you describe. Even poor little Barry himself raised himself out of the gutters of Kenya to his current position.
Getting shorted or abused or abandoned or neglected in your life isn't license to think mankind owes you big time. 1 out of 2 females is sexually abused in their life. 1 in 3 males. A high percent are neglected or abandoned, or are throw aways, their parents not caring when they leave home, just welcome the relief from the responsibility. So any time you get together with 99 other people, it would be difficult to find the Beaver Cleaver in the group.
People are not responsible for their circumstances. They are responsible for how they react to them, and the choices they make for themselves.
Or, they could just become a liberal.
Steve
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<stuff snipped>

The late Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, was an orphan who not only became a millionaire, but donated a great deal of time and money to causes concerning orphans and abandoned children. People like you and Dave can break the cycle, but I think it takes an exceptional person to start with. Most people from bad or broken families just recreate the abysmal circumstances of their youth. Children of drunkards and drug abusers never get an even break from the day they are born because they suffer developmental issues from being exposed to drugs and alcohol in the womb.
Again I thank God that I was born to fairly normal middle class parents who only occasionally tried to kill each other. (-"
-- Bobby G.
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On 10/18/2011 6:08 PM, Steve B wrote:

falsifying them. Barry did not raise himself out of the gutter of Kenya. He was the child of parents who met in college, in Hawaii. His father who was born in Kenya, returned there after his parents divorced, when Barry was 3. From ages 6-10 he attended local schools in Jakarta, Indonesia. He moved back to Hawaii, lived with his maternal grandparents, and attended a private college prep school. Those are the facts. He NEVER lived in the gutters of Kenya and never raised himself. He had very close relationships with a loving and nurturing mother and maternal grandparents. He was in Kenya for the first time in his life in 1988, when he was 27 years old, to visit his paternal relatives for the first time.
Those are the facts. You may not like him or his politics but that does not justify claiming an entirely false biography for him.
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That is not necessary. It has already been done by Barry himself as well as others.
Steve
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