OT: College is a rip off

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Students getting out of college today are facing a pretty bleak future and massive debt as universities raise prices at a rate faster than inflation and any other "service" in our economy. I feel sorry for the next "millenium" generation, Starbucks can only hire so many liberal arts majors to make coffee. You thought the mortgage bubble was bad wait till the oncoming student loan bubble, it will be worse because you can walk (foreclose) from a mortgage, but student loans are written in a way that exempts the defaulter from claiming bankruptcy (this unusual twist in the code was won by university lobbyists). I have a son in high school, I think I'm going to encourage him to become an entrepenaur and not hang his hopes on a degree meaning anything. When literally everyone has a BA or MA, then the degrees become pretty useless. I'd rather have a creative, work-a- holic go getter who is genuinely excited working for me than a graduate with the expectation that his degree means much. It is best to just begin looking for a job as a non-graduate, live at home for a while, gain experience, then maybe attend college at night once you find out how to best focus the enormous cost of college on skills that will benefit your employer.
These Operation Wall Street folks should be pickiting outside Harvard, The University of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. because unlike the corporate CEO's those tenured/pensioned university administrators ARE truly ripping them off directly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQBMRhVedI&feature=relmfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xhXfyaLxeo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYcf43YgNAY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLlrn3_G1ZQ&feature=related

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RickH wrote:

Hi, I spent ~20 years on a campus working on my job. About 5-10% kids are cream of crop who will be leaders of future generation in many different field. The problem is unqualified kids clog schools wasting education dollars and making all of them look bad. I know some grads can't ever write their own resume.
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On 10/16/2011 8:15 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

My eldest son, who graduated college over 20 years ago, says that colleges are prime examples of unbridled capitalism.
When I graduated, a half century ago, colleges were starved for funds, educators were paid less than counterparts in industry and if they wrote a textbook, it was a labor of love because it hardly paid anything.
Today colleges are awash in money, professors make more than industrial counterparts and get free tuition for their offspring and a popular textbook brings in tons of money and new editions come out frequently to keep down used book sales.
The government's making more money available just allows the colleges to charge more. Neighbor concerned about his son losing bank job as loan officer because government is taking over the loan function.
Also, don't forget, colleges are non-profit institutions that don't pay taxes. Many have huge endowments that just keep growing without spending on the college. I quit donating to my schools years ago.
The scum of the educational system protesting wall street are misguided and should be protesting colleges and their greed and the government that feeds them money to get a useless education.
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wrote:

You misspelled "Crony". Colleges have their mitts out to government, *BIG* time.

That changed right after. My father was a prof at the time. He was offered 3x his salary to go back to industry.

The last part was true forty+ years ago. My brother even had texts that his profs wrote. Because they were only used in one class by one university, they were quite expensive. Of course, a new edition came out each time the class was taught. Oh, and the prof did nothing but read the text during class. Attendance was mandatory.

Yep. Loans are one of the prime causes of the increases in tuition.

I never did. They're crooks, too.

They should at least be camped out on the front lawn of the White House.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

I has a pair of profs that co-authored the text they used for first year chemistry at IU.
The first semester guy was a GREAT teacher...very interesting, very dynamic. People would come to audit just to hear him
Second semester guy was dry as dust in the Sahara, did nothing except read the text. In a monotone.
I got an A the first semester, barely a C the second.

I don't recall attendance being mandatory but I was there and still caught up on my sleep the second semester.
--

dadiOH
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Attendance wasn't mandatory for any of my classes (engineering college) but his were (Veterinary Medicine). If they were allowed to skip, there would be zero attendance; just wouldn't look good.
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On 10/16/11 11:51 pm, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

A friend has recently submitted the manuscript for the 5th or 6th edition of his widely used text book. The publisher wants each new edition to have shorter sentences, shorter paragraphs and more graphics.
Perce
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On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:08:25 -0700 (PDT), RickH

Many of these kids would be better served going to a trade school or getting into an apprenticeship.
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Then they'd have to work.
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There was a time when the military was an option. I don't know if that's realistic today.
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 05:38:17 -0500, Dean Hoffman

I am not sure if it is still true but I agree, in the 60s, employers valued being a veteran as highly as being a college grad, particularly if you were in a good Rate/MOS and had some good schools under your belt. Navy electronics schools were the gold standard. It also demonstrated that you had some life skills and that you have not been living in a cocoon all your life
My biggest problem with US education is that it is so inbred. Teachers, Professors and the administrators who run their operations all went to school when they were 5 and never left. This has been going on for 4 generations. You have teachers, teaching teachers how to be teachers and nobody understanding what they should be teaching. It is no wonder these people do not have any awareness of the real world.
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 05:38:17 -0500, Dean Hoffman

Still is. I have a nephew that graduated collage and figured he be a wealthy financier in three years. Pretty much could not get anything right. After a series of speeding tickets, accidents, etc, he joined the Marines.
Today, he is a Lt. Col. makes a good buck and loves what he is doing. He could have easily taken ROTC or even West Point and gotten there sooner, but I think starting at the bottom did a world of good for him.
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wrote:

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wrote:

Many of these kids would be better served by the advice my dad gave me.
"You want to go to college? Sounds like a fine idea to me. Let me know how you do." End of conversation. Money was not discussed. (money was never seen) The college I did get was paid for by YKW.
So many kids today have an expectation that their parents will pay for their college, and that includes a college of the student's choice, which is coincidentally known for its partying rather than successful alumni.
More kids need to "earn" their way through college. But they get handicapped from the start by having everything provided. College, like expensive toys they got in childhood, has no value when there is no work involved in earning it.
We do have many students who earn their way through college, and some who go on their parent's money, and who are successful.
I wonder how many students actually pay their parents back for the free ride. And then, they come out with a degree in something that can't even earn them as much as a welder. That's because a degree in something valuable would have taken effort, and would have cut into the drinking time.
Yes, college is a rip off, but it takes two people to make it happen. And there's always going to be a lot of rich snotty kids lined up at the front office. And there's always going to be a lot of rich businesspeople who are glad to take their money. And once they got your money, they couldn't care less if you even show up for class.
Steve
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:54:28 -0700, "Steve B"
Unfortunately this has translated into $100,000 student loans that they have no real way to pay back. That is one of the biggest gripes from the OWS kids.
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On 10/17/11 10:54 am, Steve B wrote:

Studying *is* work, and getting a college degree should be a more-or-less full-time job. The fact that so many students (have to?) work while they are in college contributes, IMO, to the declining standards: students don't have time to study sufficiently, and the prof. can't fail more than a certain percentage of the class, so the pass standard declines; same applies to high school. And assignments are often pathetically undemanding. At the non-US university from which I graduated, the prof. explained the grading system for one of the first classes I took: "We reckon that anyone who gets 85% should be up here teaching the class"; the university-wide grading scheme expected that only about 5% of the students in any reasonably large class would get the highest grade, and a teacher consistently awarding a higher percentage of such grades would get a "please explain" memo from some higher-up or other.
Perce
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:55:48 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

Nonsense. Fewer college kids work now than did fifty years ago. There were no student loans when my father went to college (they didn't cover much when I went). By your logic, standards should have improved.
If they "don't have time" it's because they're partying (yes, I did my share, too).

Irrelevant.
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College is a party. College is having to listen to your neighbor in the dorm playing video games shouting obscenities at the screen until 3AM while you try to sleep. The hard level of effort is just not there for the vast majority. I disagree about having to work while in college, the students that do the most always seem to have the best time management skills and actually do better.
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:55:48 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"

I disagree. Of all the people I've known and worked with, the ones that had to pay a major portion of their own schooling benefited better in the end, appreciated and better used that education.
The ones that got a free ride spent more time drinking, not more time studying. This is just my observation. If you have statistics saying otherwise, I'd like to see them.
I know of one such student that has some sort of literature degree and a trust fund. He wants me to hire him to work in shipping at minimum wage. Lots of education, no ability.
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In my senior year of high school, I left home. I worked busboy at the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on Graveyard. Got off at 8, went to school at nine. Took English IV (an honor class), physics, government, and chemistry.
Things are the way they are because of our decaying society and the teacher's union.
Life is a buffet, and if you go away hungry, it's your own fault.
Stve
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