Students getting out of college today are facing a pretty bleak future
and massive debt as universities raise prices at a rate faster than
inflation and any other "service" in our economy. I feel sorry for
the next "millenium" generation, Starbucks can only hire so many
liberal arts majors to make coffee. You thought the mortgage bubble
was bad wait till the oncoming student loan bubble, it will be worse
because you can walk (foreclose) from a mortgage, but student loans
are written in a way that exempts the defaulter from claiming
bankruptcy (this unusual twist in the code was won by university
lobbyists). I have a son in high school, I think I'm going to
encourage him to become an entrepenaur and not hang his hopes on a
degree meaning anything. When literally everyone has a BA or MA, then
the degrees become pretty useless. I'd rather have a creative, work-a-
holic go getter who is genuinely excited working for me than a
graduate with the expectation that his degree means much. It is best
to just begin looking for a job as a non-graduate, live at home for a
while, gain experience, then maybe attend college at night once you
find out how to best focus the enormous cost of college on skills that
will benefit your employer.
These Operation Wall Street folks should be pickiting outside Harvard,
The University of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. because unlike the
corporate CEO's those tenured/pensioned university administrators ARE
truly ripping them off directly.
I spent ~20 years on a campus working on my job. About 5-10% kids are
cream of crop who will be leaders of future generation in many different
field. The problem is unqualified kids clog schools wasting
education dollars and making all of them look bad. I know some grads
can't ever write their own resume.
My eldest son, who graduated college over 20 years ago, says that
colleges are prime examples of unbridled capitalism.
When I graduated, a half century ago, colleges were starved for funds,
educators were paid less than counterparts in industry and if they wrote
a textbook, it was a labor of love because it hardly paid anything.
Today colleges are awash in money, professors make more than industrial
counterparts and get free tuition for their offspring and a popular
textbook brings in tons of money and new editions come out frequently to
keep down used book sales.
The government's making more money available just allows the colleges to
charge more. Neighbor concerned about his son losing bank job as loan
officer because government is taking over the loan function.
Also, don't forget, colleges are non-profit institutions that don't pay
taxes. Many have huge endowments that just keep growing without
spending on the college. I quit donating to my schools years ago.
The scum of the educational system protesting wall street are misguided
and should be protesting colleges and their greed and the government
that feeds them money to get a useless education.
You misspelled "Crony". Colleges have their mitts out to government, *BIG*
That changed right after. My father was a prof at the time. He was offered
3x his salary to go back to industry.
The last part was true forty+ years ago. My brother even had texts that his
profs wrote. Because they were only used in one class by one university, they
were quite expensive. Of course, a new edition came out each time the class
was taught. Oh, and the prof did nothing but read the text during class.
Attendance was mandatory.
Yep. Loans are one of the prime causes of the increases in tuition.
I never did. They're crooks, too.
They should at least be camped out on the front lawn of the White House.
I has a pair of profs that co-authored the text they used for first year
chemistry at IU.
The first semester guy was a GREAT teacher...very interesting, very dynamic.
People would come to audit just to hear him
Second semester guy was dry as dust in the Sahara, did nothing except read
the text. In a monotone.
I got an A the first semester, barely a C the second.
I don't recall attendance being mandatory but I was there and still caught
up on my sleep the second semester.
On 10/16/11 11:51 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
A friend has recently submitted the manuscript for the 5th or 6th
edition of his widely used text book. The publisher wants each new
edition to have shorter sentences, shorter paragraphs and more graphics.
I am not sure if it is still true but I agree, in the 60s, employers
valued being a veteran as highly as being a college grad, particularly
if you were in a good Rate/MOS and had some good schools under your
belt. Navy electronics schools were the gold standard.
It also demonstrated that you had some life skills and that you have
not been living in a cocoon all your life
My biggest problem with US education is that it is so inbred.
Teachers, Professors and the administrators who run their operations
all went to school when they were 5 and never left. This has been
going on for 4 generations. You have teachers, teaching teachers how
to be teachers and nobody understanding what they should be teaching.
It is no wonder these people do not have any awareness of the real
Still is. I have a nephew that graduated collage and figured he be a
wealthy financier in three years. Pretty much could not get anything
right. After a series of speeding tickets, accidents, etc, he joined
Today, he is a Lt. Col. makes a good buck and loves what he is doing.
He could have easily taken ROTC or even West Point and gotten there
sooner, but I think starting at the bottom did a world of good for
Many of these kids would be better served by the advice my dad gave me.
"You want to go to college? Sounds like a fine idea to me. Let me know how
you do." End of conversation. Money was not discussed. (money was never
seen) The college I did get was paid for by YKW.
So many kids today have an expectation that their parents will pay for their
college, and that includes a college of the student's choice, which is
coincidentally known for its partying rather than successful alumni.
More kids need to "earn" their way through college. But they get
handicapped from the start by having everything provided. College, like
expensive toys they got in childhood, has no value when there is no work
involved in earning it.
We do have many students who earn their way through college, and some who go
on their parent's money, and who are successful.
I wonder how many students actually pay their parents back for the free
ride. And then, they come out with a degree in something that can't even
earn them as much as a welder. That's because a degree in something
valuable would have taken effort, and would have cut into the drinking time.
Yes, college is a rip off, but it takes two people to make it happen. And
there's always going to be a lot of rich snotty kids lined up at the front
office. And there's always going to be a lot of rich businesspeople who are
glad to take their money. And once they got your money, they couldn't care
less if you even show up for class.
Studying *is* work, and getting a college degree should be a
more-or-less full-time job. The fact that so many students (have to?)
work while they are in college contributes, IMO, to the declining
standards: students don't have time to study sufficiently, and the prof.
can't fail more than a certain percentage of the class, so the pass
standard declines; same applies to high school. And assignments are
often pathetically undemanding. At the non-US university from which I
graduated, the prof. explained the grading system for one of the first
classes I took: "We reckon that anyone who gets 85% should be up here
teaching the class"; the university-wide grading scheme expected that
only about 5% of the students in any reasonably large class would get
the highest grade, and a teacher consistently awarding a higher
percentage of such grades would get a "please explain" memo from some
higher-up or other.
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:55:48 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Nonsense. Fewer college kids work now than did fifty years ago. There were
no student loans when my father went to college (they didn't cover much when I
went). By your logic, standards should have improved.
If they "don't have time" it's because they're partying (yes, I did my share,
College is a party. College is having to listen to your neighbor in
the dorm playing video games shouting obscenities at the screen until
3AM while you try to sleep. The hard level of effort is just not
there for the vast majority. I disagree about having to work while in
college, the students that do the most always seem to have the best
time management skills and actually do better.
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:55:48 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
I disagree. Of all the people I've known and worked with, the ones
that had to pay a major portion of their own schooling benefited
better in the end, appreciated and better used that education.
The ones that got a free ride spent more time drinking, not more time
studying. This is just my observation. If you have statistics saying
otherwise, I'd like to see them.
I know of one such student that has some sort of literature degree and
a trust fund. He wants me to hire him to work in shipping at minimum
wage. Lots of education, no ability.
In my senior year of high school, I left home. I worked busboy at the
Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas on Graveyard. Got off at 8, went to school at
nine. Took English IV (an honor class), physics, government, and chemistry.
Things are the way they are because of our decaying society and the
Life is a buffet, and if you go away hungry, it's your own fault.
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