OT - Check Engine Lights, Computer Codes and Passing Inspection

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not sure to which post I should reply with my actual experience, so I'll probably post it in more than one response.

2004 Honda Odyssey. The Evap code condition has been present and intermittent for more than a year.

For my 2013 inspection I took it to a shop owned by a guy who used to work in a Honda dealer's service center. The light was on at the time. I told him about the Evap code and the intermittent nature of the problem. He told me that he would reset the light, drive the vehicle for a few miles and if it didn't come back on, he would inspect it. The vehicle passed the inspection.

This year, I waited for the light to stay off for about a week and then took it for an inspection at a local service center. I didn't say anything about the light or the intermittent nature of the problem. It passed the inspection. This was the shop that later told me that passing an inspection with an intermittent check engine light was "hit or miss". I asked it as a hypothetical question, not telling him that the problem was the vehicle that just passed the inspection.

So, bottom line, however the inspection system deals with past, current or future codes, this vehicle passed inspection twice even though the problem still exists.

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not sure to which post I should reply with my actual experience, so I'll probably post it in more than one response.

2004 Honda Odyssey. The Evap code condition has been present and intermittent for more than a year.

For my 2013 inspection I took it to a shop owned by a guy who used to work in a Honda dealer's service center. The light was on at the time. I told him about the Evap code and the intermittent nature of the problem. He told me that he would reset the light, drive the vehicle for a few miles and if it didn't come back on, he would inspect it. The vehicle passed the inspection.

This year, I waited for the light to stay off for about a week and then took it for an inspection at a local service center. I didn't say anything about the light or the intermittent nature of the problem. It passed the inspection. This was the shop that later told me that passing an inspection with an intermittent check engine light was "hit or miss". I asked it as a hypothetical question, not telling him that the problem was with the vehicle that just passed the inspection.

So, bottom line, however the inspection system deals with past, current or future codes, this vehicle passed inspection twice even though the problem still exists.

[DerbyDad03]

I'm not sure to which post I should reply with my actual experience, so I'll probably post it in more than one response.

2004 Honda Odyssey. The Evap code condition has been present and intermittent for more than a year.

For my 2013 inspection I took it to a shop owned by a guy who used to work in a Honda dealer's service center. The light was on at the time. I told him about the Evap code and the intermittent nature of the problem. He told me that he would reset the light, drive the vehicle for a few miles and if it didn't come back on, he would inspect it. The vehicle passed the inspection.

This year, I waited for the light to stay off for about a week and then took it for an inspection at a local service center. I didn't say anything about the light or the intermittent nature of the problem. It passed the inspection. This was the shop that later told me that passing an inspection with an intermittent check engine light was "hit or miss". I asked it as a hypothetical question, not telling him that the problem was the vehicle that just passed the inspection.

So, bottom line, however the inspection system deals with past, current or future codes, this vehicle passed inspection twice even though the problem still exists.

[DerbyDad03]

That's an interesting brochure. I read the part about the "generic drive cycle". I tried to imagine a time and/or place where a driver could safely perform the required steps. A major highway, like an interstate, at three in the morning is about the only place where it would possible to drive 55 for three minutes, coast down to 20, go back up to 55 for five minutes and then cost to a stop.

However, getting to the interstate will not allow the cold start portion of the cycle to be adhered to. I guess you have to drive to a rest stop, take nap while the vehicle cooled down and then perform the routine.

[philoÂÂ]

Yep, just as I predicted.

From experience I know that "what should be true" or "what should not be true" have little bearing on "what actually is true".

Proves I have a logical mind ....now convince my wife of that

[trader4]

I'm pretty sure it's the same here in NJ, you can have one monitor flag not set and still pass. I think they even allowed two for older vehicles. Best of all is older diesels, prior to like 94, I think. You no longer have to get them inspected at all here.

[philoÂÂ]

Here in Wisconsin the state no longer does the testing, they have authorized independent service stations to perform the test so there is obviously some possibility of abuse.

Though there are safeguards, there are ways an unscrupulous service facility could con people into getting costly "repairs".

If you have a well known mechanic you know you can trust,,,that's the best router. Since the place where I go is not on the state-authorized list I just have it done when I get my oil changed at one of the national chains and where the person who runs the test is not going to gain monetarily from a repair.

[DerbyDad03]

In my state the inspections have been done by "state authorized facilities" for as long as I can remember, about a half-century. Used to be there were three types of inspections stations: straight-up, no nonsense stations where they inspected your vehicle, passing it or failing it and telling you what was wrong if it failed; unscrupulous stations that would fail the car saying it required repairs; and stations where you could ride in on a bicycle and ride out with an inspection sticker for your "no way it would pass inspection ever" vehicle. Some stations were a mixture of a couple of these.

Many, many years ago I had a mechanic friend who took his vehicle in for an inspection and they failed it for a cause my friend knew to false. He called the state who sent a DMV rep to his house. The rep and my friend drove over to a different authorized station and the rep asked the station to check the part that "failed". There was nothing wrong with it and the state pulled the other station's inspection privileges for a year. Turns out it wasn't the first complaint against the station.

These days, with all of the emission data being sent to the state via the computer, I think it would be hard to fake a passing inspection and just sell stickers like they used to. I'm sure it's still done, but I do know of a couple of small repair shops that no longer do inspections because the didn't want to buy the required equipment.

[philoÂÂ]

That friend of mine who had been trying for 5 months to get her car passed grew suspicious when the garage that flunked the car gave her a photocopy of the failure report.

Since the computers have to be linked to the state...when she checked with the state and they had no record of the failure, she knew the place was crooked.

She did have a real problem with her car but it was intermittent.

[clare]

When he drove the car he most likely did the "drive cycle" and the evap monitor did not reset - So it passed.

Yours likely got through the monitor reset without having the intermittent happen - so no codes were set Mostvehicles reset the monitor and code after X miles or X restarts with no recurrence. This is true of Evap codes that can be caused by a bad or loose gas cap.(PO440, 442, 445 and 455 are examples)

[clare]

As long as the monitor resets after the cap is replaced and no other error occurs on an OBD2 vehicle it will pass. Here in Ontario Pre OBD2 vehicles still get sniffed.

[clare]

The cold start portion will reset the next day if everything else is OK.

It is because of this issue that ONE readiness monitor failure is allowed for a pass in Ontario - and is the loophole that allows a faulty vehicle to pass if you work it right.

[clare]

Same way it's been done here in Ontario for years - but they just dropped the sniffer test for OBD2 this year. I recommend always use a "test" facility, not a "test and repair" because a "test"tation cannot sell you repairs.

[philoÂÂ]

On 01/05/2014 02:53 PM, [e-mail] wrote: X

Good idea.

In Wisconsin , the repair cost is limited to $500

If your car still won't pass but you spent $500 trying, they will exempt you.

I am sure you know how many bills for $495 have been issued for possibly very minor repairs.

[clare]

In Ontario, if a vehicle REQUIRES more than a given amount ( I think it'd $640, but don't quote me) for a single repair you can get a "conditional pass" which does not let you transfer the vehicle but allows you to keep driving - WITHOUT spending the money. If it needs 5 repairs totalling that amount, you are out of luck. Fix it or park it.

[micky]

I meant 25 days.

[Ashton Crusher]

Part of the issue I found with these things is that there is an issue I didn't see mentioned here and that is whether the reset has been reset (I forget the right terms). Basically you can make the CEL go out by clearing the error codes and starting over. There are several tests the system needs to run but they are not like the constant "listening for a spark misfire" tests that's always running. For example, once or twice a day the computer will test the EGR by purposely sending it a signal to OPEN WIDE which will cause the engine speed to drop. By monitoring the engine speed during this brief ERG open cycle the computer an tell that the EGR really is working... if the engine speed didn't drop it would mean it wasn't opening when the computer told it to open. But this isn't a "test" that is run all the time, just occasionally. So if you take it in for inspection right after you have reset the computer those tests will not "be ready" to be read and you will fail the inspection, not because something is definitely wrong, just because the test have not been run by the computer yet. They usually say "drive it for a few days" and get it retested because by then these tests will have been run and stored. As far as I know that's the only thing that will get you other then if the CEL is actually on. I went thru this with the last used car I bought due to, what else, the EVAP system causing the CEL to go on. I reset the system and went to the emissions test and it "failed" due to the "monitors not ready" (I think that's what it's called).

[Pavel314]

Here in Maryland they won't test a car if the memory has been reset within a certain number of miles.

[clare]

They can't tell how many miles it's been since it was reset. They will not test if any monitors (or a certain number of monitors) are not reset.

[sms]

Clearing the codes is sometimes not enough to pass. I had a dead battery in a vehicle that I don't use much and even though there were no codes, I failed the smog check. Too many "incompletes" because I hadn't driven it enough, and hadn't followed the "drive cycles" that the manufacturer specifies that will get rid of the incompletes. You can search for the specific drive cycles for each vehicle that will allow you to quickly clear the "incompletes."

I learned that before going to a smog check I need to do a scan and make sure there is not more than one incomplete.

I use the Android "Torque Pro" app ($4.95) and a Bluetooth OBD-II dongle. It's an extremely well done app that goes far beyond just reading and clearing codes. Bluetooth OBD-II dongles are about $13 . I put a dongle into each of our vehicles. Unfortunately, there is no app for the iPhone or iPad that's as good as Torque Pro. I'm sure the author would have loved to port the app to iOS but Apple limits the Bluetooth profiles that iOS supports so the Bluetooth OBD-II dongles won't work (except on Jailbroken iOS devices).

I'm in California. Each state is probably different in terms of what they require in order to pass. On older vehicles California allows two incompletes. On newer vehicles they allow one "incomplete."

"Additionally, if too many readiness flags are "incomplete," the vehicle will fail the inspection because it has not been operated enough to allow all of the self-diagnostics to run." From .