(OT) Car coolant question

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in news:a949g8p7fatqaffk23cq48p5vnfoqn6q7v@ 4ax.com:

Even 30-seconds is not safe if there is no coolant in the head. The rad being missing is NOT the same as simply having low coolant-level in a complete system.
Combustion temperatures are around 1,500-2,000 degrees F. That heat builds in seconds if it can't be carried away; without coolant, the surrounding metal will overheat /very/ quickly, creating the strong probability of the head warping, which will cause head-gasket failure and poor valve sealing.
--
Tegger

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wrote:

Are you a mechanic??? I am. 30 seconds will not hurt ANYTHING. Period. The thermal mass is highe enough to take a minute of no or light load running without harm - even on a lightweight aluminum engine. - in most cases significantly longer.
The Ccadillac Northstar can be driven 50 miles with absolutely no coolant, without harm - and it is a FRAGILE engine. They do it by rotating shutdown of cyls and reducing power output.
I would not run a dry engine for 5 minutes - but I have posted a solution that works very well and is totally safe for a 5 minute run. - short circuit pipe..
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

First, I am not a mechanic but I question the 5 minutes. I don't know the outside temps his engine will be started but my experience shows my engine reaching operating temps in less than 5 minutes. If this is correct, then his engine will get pretty hot for a minute or so with no liquid. As I said I'm no mechanic or mechanical engineer but this sounds on the verge of dangerous to me. I sure hope he gets confirmation on what you said, if he thinks you are correct.
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wrote:

I just read your post you were referring to I think and in that post, you did refer to running it with liquid ... therefore not dry. In that case I agree if it's not much more than 5 minutes.
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:50:16 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's the Cadillac engine I mentioned in another post.
This whole thing does have me asking how it is that air cooled engines survive as long as they do? Particularly the larger ones on garden tractors, skid steers, etc? Yea, I know they have cooling fins, but hey, people use them all the time when the outdoor summer temperature is in the 90s, and the air is still. Often they are just sitting at idle. How can they be getting cooled properly? Yet they seem to last a long time in most cases. Those find cant be doing much when there is no air movement, and usually no fan either....
Are they built from stronger metals than a car engine?
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snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Air cooled engines are very hot running in comparison to liquid cooled engines. They also have to be built to much looser tolerances.
Small air cooled engines like lawn mowers & garden tractors do in fact have cooling fans... they're integral with the flywheel assembly. They also almost always employ baffles to force cooling air penetration deep through the fins. They're always run quite rich to further assist in cooling as well. (All that unburned fuel carries amazing amounts of heat away through the exhaust; however this takes a big toll on efficiency and emissions).[1]
Air cooled aircraft engines also use baffles for the same reason, and larger ones include 'cowl flaps' to afford some temperature control... and to mitigate decent overcooling (or 'shock cooling' as they call it). As the fuel/air mixture is pilot adjustable, these engines are always run dead rich on the ground and in climb configuration to assist in cooling, and manually leaned once in cruise to increase efficiency.
Air cooled motorcycles take a beating... they usually have no fan/s or baffles and can/will really overheat if left idle for long periods, or ridden slowly downwind long distances with little/no airspeed. Don't know for sure, but I'm reasonably sure they're normally jetted rich for the above reasons. (Have heard modern fuel injected motorcycle computers have some temperature regulation ability through air/fuel mixture control.)
Erik
[1] This is a major reason you see few (or no) air cooled engines on newer cars... it's extremely difficult to make them emission compliant.)
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:53:26 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

How about aircraft????

Nope - usually crappy aluminum aloys
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On Jan 28, 1:59pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

It's ok to move your car around without coolant. Not for 5 minutes though. But you shouldn't need that long. Get everything out of the way, start the car, move it immediately, shut it off. You'll be fine.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:59:21 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Then how do they hold up?
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 00:54:06 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Design. And they do not stand up all that well - many have a "published life span" of as little as 300 hours.
The heavy duty engines like the OLD Kohler and Wisconsin engines were heavy cast iron, and ran almost forever - but their horsepower per lb ratio was disgusting..
The horsepower per cu inch displacement of the small engines is also very conservative, to put it mildly. (except in the case of the high rpm super lightweight 2 strokes).
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On 1/28/13 2:53 AM, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Deutz builds some fairly large air cooled engines for stationary use. The largest one on their site is just over 170 HP. One for mobile machinery use is rated at 322 HP. I didn't check to see if that's maximum or continuous. They used to sell Deutz engines for irrigation use at my workplace years ago. One of the advantages is the engines could run hotter and be more fuel efficient. Wisconsin used to build air cooled gasoline engines. Minneapolis-Moline used them on their combines. Also long ago.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:46:41 -0600, Dean Hoffman

I had an old Bobcat skid steer with an air cooled Wisconsin engine. Lasted a long time, but I sold it because it other stuff was always breaking down. Engine still run well. Biggest problem with engine was the carb likes to stick and needed to be rebuilt fairly often.
It got lots of hard use.
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:09:24 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Extremely heavy lump of cast iron - and bullet-proof. Some had alloy heads - but most were cast - and compression ratios on the low side of 6:1
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wrote:

I don't know but my hunch is you are correct. That said since this newsgroup seems indecisive about exact amount of time (understandable IMO), I think he is well advised not to take a chance because I think?? he has more to lose than to gain. Of course ultimately he will make that decision.
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I'm sure all the deep knowledge you've demonstrated about the actual topic will be of great comfort to him on his 5 minute journey.
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:15:13 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Yeah ok. Now I understand why some put you in their kill file.
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Actually, CL who just claimed he had me kill-filed, just replied to one of my posts. If he can't figure out how to do it, I seriously doubt you can.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 05:36:22 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

First off, I didn't say I would. Second, you're beginning to sound like an idiot who deserves it. Third, with my reader, I found kill files not as good as I had hoped years ago.
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wrote:

Nor did he say you would, just that he doubts you can.

Go fer it. Don't like the heat... It is pretty dumb to announce it and even worse to announce it then obviously not follow through (Trader's point).

Seems Trader was right all along.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:56:07 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Just looking to get into another war on words I guess. If it makes you feel happy, sure I'm wrong and you're right. Hopefully that will SHUT you up for now.
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