(OT) Car coolant question

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I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. That may take several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. I want to move the car to a differerent place on the property. It will take 5 minutes at most to start it and move it. Is it safe to run an engine without coolant for a short time like this? It's an 80's car with 6 cyl engine if that matters. I dont think it can get real hot in that amount of time, but I thought I'd ask. I'm handy with cars, but no mechanic.
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:02:56 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

I wouldn't do it. Might have no use for the repaired radiator. Leave it, or find another way to move it.
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 18:20:39 -0600, Vic Smith

I would not run it f minutes. But you can easily make a "short circuit pipe" to fit between the rad hoses, fill it with coolant, move it and drain it.
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:29:49 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Now that is a great idea. I probably have a pipe for that too. Sometimes posting on here is well worth it.
Thanks!
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:36:47 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

A bit of PVC and a pair of elbows works fine. Don't even need to glue it together - just a wrap of tape to hold it together. Put the pipe in the lower hose, fill from top of pipe, pop the top hose on, and start it up.
That said -
My daughter's '82 Colt 200 blew the rad one cold and nasty night about 10 miles from home. I went out with 2 gallons of water and tried to fill the rad. Water ran out as fast as I could pour it in. I gave my daughter the keys to my car and told her to follow me. I started the colt, took it up to 100kph and shut it off, letting it coast. When it got down to about 30 or 40 I turned on the ignition, popped the clutch, and took it up to 100 again, then coasted it down. Took 3 or 4 cycles to get it home to my driveway - where we put in a new rad the next day. No harm done to the engine
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:44:22 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Then the solution is simple. Have your daughter go to Homeowner's place and follow him as he moves the car.
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On 1/27/2013 12:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the engine after every run or two. ^_^
TDD
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:01:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas

And they fill the coolant passages with solid heat absorbing material.
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?
Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.
What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone just for emergencies.
The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too. When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not always true.
By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.
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On 1/28/2013 2:13 AM, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Cadillac Northstar Engine. ^_^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northstar_engine_series
TDD
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

My experience is different. A mechanical pump stranded me by failing without warning. I replaced 2 electric in-tank pumps after they gave fair warning by hard starting or fuel starvation at speed. I don't like in-tank pumps because they're expensive as hell and PITA to change. A couple hours even if it goes smoothly versus 10 minutes for a mech pump. Just my experience. If your'e on a farm, you should have a chain to pull that car where you want. Hell, I kept one in my F-100 in Chicago, and pulled cars with it.
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On 1/28/2013 8:38 AM, Vic Smith wrote:

i recently did my 96 vette fuel pump. pull the gas cap, a rubber shroud, and the top of the tank is right there. 6 bolts, pull up on a steel rod, and it's in your hand. 10 minutes tops. of course, it did strand me 150 miles from home, so that was a pain.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:55:44 -0700, chaniarts

That's a handy design. I was busy with work so had my mechanic replace the one on my '88 Celebrity. 2.8. It did strand me briefly. Had to let the pump cool off. It ran fine about 15 miles to the mech. He couldn't believe I got there because it was only putting out 2-3 psi. Tank had to be dropped. Think it cost me $4-5 bills. My daughter's '93 Grand Am 3.3 would stall with the tank less than 1/4 full when the gas sloshed. I did that myself. About 3 hours work, no lift, but the pump was about $250. Just put a new tank in my '97 Lumina because it was holed with rust. About 3 hours, no lift. Put the old pump back in with a new sock. The pump is near $300 so I'm not about to replace it when it's working fine. Some vehicles, like your Vette, have access to the pump with just a little work. Most you have to drop the tank. The tank in the Grand Am and Lumina don't even sit under the trunk, as you might think because of filler location. They're strapped up under the rear seat.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:38:16 -0600, Vic Smith

Got lots of chains and a tractor to pull, but you cant pull it into a garage, and it's uphill in front of garage with no one to help push except my old body an another old guy with health problems. Yea, I could have pulled it near the garage w/chain and drivin it into the garage I suppose, but it's done and no problems. And pushing with a tractor tends to fuck things up.
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

Hard Blok engine filler from Summit Racing is one.
Moroso makes one as well - and then there is GE Blockguard.
Hard Blok appears to be an iron filled epoxy (at least it is a 2 component product)

Like I said before, it is called a Northstar -and it's a lot more complex than just shutting off 4 cyls for limp home.

A second fuel pump is just twice as much to go wrong.

They could also leak gasoline all over the engine and start a fire, pump all of the oil out of the crankcase, blowing the engine, or pump half a tank of gasoline into the crankcase - also blowing the engine.
They could vapour lock (and often did) and the valves could stick, causing the pump to stop pumping and the engine to stop. They failed a LOT more often than today's electrics. The average car in the sixties and seventies went through 2 or 3 pumps, minimum, in their lifespan, and only a SMALL fraction exceeded 100,000 miles before ending up in the scrapyard. Go back to the forties, and pump rebuilds were required every 2 years or so.

Even more imprssive is how long an engine will often run with NO OIL and NO COOLANT in some of the "engine blow competitions" held at car shows etc. A few years ago one went over 27 minutes, at full throttle, before it stopped. Half an hour later, one crank and away it went again.
My old Pontiac TranSport 3.8 dumped all of it's antifreeze on the road before I bought it. It ran untill it seized (about 20 miles). I bought it - knowing it needed an engine - and it started and ran quietly but with high emissions that would never pass - No blown head gasket, or damaged bearings. Either rings or valve seals had definitely failed.
I put in a rebuilt that only lasted about 60,000 miles (just under 100,000km)
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:52:01 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Thats weird how something like that would help cool.

True, but at least there is a backup.

I never seen that happen, but I suppose it could. I did have one dripping gas once. However I heard from a mechanic that he actually witnesses a car explode from a shorted in tank fuel pump. He said this dont happen often, but has happened quite a few times. I personally dont like the idea of having an electric wire inside a tank of explosive gas. One spark is all it takes.

I have had vapor lock on older cars nore than once. I still have a car with a mechanical fuel pump and carb. Well over 200,000 miles. I have never changed the FP. So those forties cars needed their FP changed about as often as these new in tank ones. Seems everyone I know is always changing them. Ive done my share too.

Thats amazing!

I once got a laen mower where the piston was welded to the cylinder. I took a block of wood an hammer and pounded down the piston. Cyl was all grooved up, but it started and ran, just kind of smoky, but I used it for several years after that.
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:06:12 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

It does not help cool. It just makes it take longer to heat up. Thermal mass is king. With, let's say 5 times as much thermal mass, it takes 5 times as long to reach a given temperature (and to cool off afterwards)

Which is useless if it has also failed.

Actually it is EXTREMELY rare - I have NEVER heard of it (and I AM a mechanic - although not currently earning my living in the trade). In order for the tank to explode from a spark - or even a BLOW TORCH inside the tank, the tank would need to be vented to the atmosphere - and the mixture would need to be EXTREMELY diluted by air. With fuel vapour density at least 3 or 4 times that of air, the vapour naturally displaces the air in the tank -The flamability range of gasoline is from 1.2 to 7.1:1 by weight

Well, both of my old fuel injected Chryslers went over 240,000km on the original pump. My 1995 TransSport went over 300,000. My friend's Honda went over 700,000, and so did my neighbour's GMC pickup. Personally - and in my immediate family, I have NEVER had an electric fuel pump fail. The Pontiac used to draw air and stup if I hit washboard road below 1/4 tank - but that's all.

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On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:38:12 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You either have good luck or you got better pumps. A local mechanic said 60% of his business is replacing in-tank pumps. My 91 GMC truck developed a leak in the lines on top of the pump outside of tank. I replaced that with a used part, but the same pump. Couple weeks later that pump died, I put in a new one. That lasted a couple months and died. That's when I sawed a hole in the box because I refused to drop the tank again. I got a used pump from the junkyard, put it in, and sold the truck. Main reason I sold it was the pump issues.
A friend has a small Chevy pickup, he's been thru 3 pumps in 2 years. The first replacement only lasted 2 months. Seems the ones sold at the parts stores are all crap. I will say that the guy always runs his truck on almost empty. Puts in 3 gallons at a time, so that may be part of his problem. But either way, it seems all I hear locally is fuel pump failures.
I had an 86 Olds compact car which is the one that stranded me on that very cold night cuz of the pump. The car had other problems too, so after the pump went, I junked the car.
I like my old carbureted Chevy Caprice with mech fuel pump. It just keeps going and going with no engine problems. Biggest problems on that car have been worn front end parts and the brakes seem to have a rather short lifespan, but I'll live with that.
My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:14:03 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

They were all original equipment pumps. 1985 Lebaron, 1988 New Yorker, 1995 TranSport. 92 Civic, and1996 GMC Pickup. All lasted over 12 years - the Chryslers 0ver 18.

When I was actively working as a mechanic we had more problems with the wiring outside the tank, and rusted lines on the fuel guage unit than pumps themselves. Hardly had any actual failed pumps on Toyotas - carbureted or injected - intank or frame mounted pumps.

A LOT of the replacement parts ARE junk. But the cheapassed driver who can't figure out that filling the top third costs the same as the bottom third deserves to change a lot of fuel pumps.

You can have it. Carburetor rebuilds - leaky floats, sticky and leaky needle valves, bad accellerator pumps, sticky and malfunctioning chokes, bad fuel mileage and high exhaust emissions, perculation when hot - all the problems that have been virtually eliminated by fuel injection
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Agreed! Fuel injection is much simpler and reliable... and with OBDII easier to troubleshoot
If your after a truck, get a for real truck... not one of those expensive 'truck like product' gimmicks that seem to be everywhere now... go for a Tundra or Tacoma.
Erik
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