I had to remove my car's radiator to get it repaired. That may take
several days to a week, since the repair shop is real busy. I want to
move the car to a differerent place on the property. It will take 5
minutes at most to start it and move it. Is it safe to run an engine
without coolant for a short time like this? It's an 80's car with 6 cyl
engine if that matters. I dont think it can get real hot in that amount
of time, but I thought I'd ask. I'm handy with cars, but no mechanic.
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 02:36:47 -0600, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
A bit of PVC and a pair of elbows works fine. Don't even need to glue
it together - just a wrap of tape to hold it together. Put the pipe in
the lower hose, fill from top of pipe, pop the top hose on, and start
That said -
My daughter's '82 Colt 200 blew the rad one cold and nasty night about
10 miles from home. I went out with 2 gallons of water and tried to
fill the rad. Water ran out as fast as I could pour it in. I gave my
daughter the keys to my car and told her to follow me. I started the
colt, took it up to 100kph and shut it off, letting it coast. When it
got down to about 30 or 40 I turned on the ignition, popped the
clutch, and took it up to 100 again, then coasted it down. Took 3 or 4
cycles to get it home to my driveway - where we put in a new rad the
next day. No harm done to the engine
On 1/27/2013 12:44 PM, email@example.com wrote:
I remember Cadillac advertizing from some time back that their engine
control system would allow the vehicle to run in limp home mode without
coolant in the engine's cooling system. Of course I recall top fuel
dragsters run without a cooling system at all but they rebuild the
engine after every run or two. ^_^
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
What the heck would a "solid heat absorbing material" be?
Cadillac has a special V8 engine that shuts off 4 cylinders for the limp
home mode. I just read about that recently. I forget what they call
the engine, but it seems they are very costly and hard to repair.
What I wish is that all the fuel injected vehicles would have a second
fuel pump to get people home. So many of those in-tank pumps fail
leaving the driver stranded. That happened to me about 7 years ago, it
was a bitter cold night, around 20 below zero. I was out in the country
about 6 miles from home and nearly froze to death. That was before I
owned a cellphone. I probably would have frozen but halfway home I
found a barn filled with cattle, and it was fairly warm in there. I
stayed in the barn till I was warm, then walked the rest of the way
home, barely making it. After that was when I got a pre-paid cellphone
just for emergencies.
The older cars were more likely to limp a person home than these new
ones. Those fuel pumps seem to be a major flaw on the newer cars too.
When they die, it's all over. Start walking! The old mechanical fuel
pumps usually gave a warning and would still limp a person home most of
the time, not to mention they could be changed on the shoulder of a road
in a half hour or less. What they call "progress" these days is not
By the way, I dont know much about dragsters, but I've been to many
demolition derbys and am amazed how long most of those engines run with
no coolant after a radiator is blown. Of course they are all headed to
the scrap yard anyhow once the show is over.
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, email@example.com wrote:
My experience is different. A mechanical pump stranded me by failing
without warning. I replaced 2 electric in-tank pumps after they gave
fair warning by hard starting or fuel starvation at speed.
I don't like in-tank pumps because they're expensive as hell and PITA
to change. A couple hours even if it goes smoothly versus 10 minutes
for a mech pump.
Just my experience.
If your'e on a farm, you should have a chain to pull that car where
you want. Hell, I kept one in my F-100 in Chicago, and pulled cars
i recently did my 96 vette fuel pump. pull the gas cap, a rubber shroud,
and the top of the tank is right there. 6 bolts, pull up on a steel rod,
and it's in your hand. 10 minutes tops. of course, it did strand me 150
miles from home, so that was a pain.
That's a handy design. I was busy with work so had my mechanic
replace the one on my '88 Celebrity. 2.8. It did strand me briefly.
Had to let the pump cool off. It ran fine about 15 miles to the mech.
He couldn't believe I got there because it was only putting out 2-3
psi. Tank had to be dropped. Think it cost me $4-5 bills.
My daughter's '93 Grand Am 3.3 would stall with the tank less than 1/4
full when the gas sloshed. I did that myself. About 3 hours work, no
lift, but the pump was about $250.
Just put a new tank in my '97 Lumina because it was holed with rust.
About 3 hours, no lift. Put the old pump back in with a new sock.
The pump is near $300 so I'm not about to replace it when it's working
Some vehicles, like your Vette, have access to the pump with just a
little work. Most you have to drop the tank. The tank in the Grand
Am and Lumina don't even sit under the trunk, as you might think
because of filler location. They're strapped up under the rear seat.
Got lots of chains and a tractor to pull, but you cant pull it into a
garage, and it's uphill in front of garage with no one to help push
except my old body an another old guy with health problems. Yea, I could
have pulled it near the garage w/chain and drivin it into the garage I
suppose, but it's done and no problems. And pushing with a tractor
tends to fuck things up.
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 02:13:45 -0600, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Hard Blok engine filler from Summit Racing is one.
Moroso makes one as well - and then there is GE Blockguard.
Hard Blok appears to be an iron filled epoxy (at least it is a 2
Like I said before, it is called a Northstar -and it's a lot more
complex than just shutting off 4 cyls for limp home.
A second fuel pump is just twice as much to go wrong.
They could also leak gasoline all over the engine and start a fire,
pump all of the oil out of the crankcase, blowing the engine, or pump
half a tank of gasoline into the crankcase - also blowing the engine.
They could vapour lock (and often did) and the valves could stick,
causing the pump to stop pumping and the engine to stop. They failed a
LOT more often than today's electrics. The average car in the sixties
and seventies went through 2 or 3 pumps, minimum, in their lifespan,
and only a SMALL fraction exceeded 100,000 miles before ending up in
the scrapyard. Go back to the forties, and pump rebuilds were required
every 2 years or so.
Even more imprssive is how long an engine will often run with NO OIL
and NO COOLANT in some of the "engine blow competitions" held at car
shows etc. A few years ago one went over 27 minutes, at full throttle,
before it stopped. Half an hour later, one crank and away it went
My old Pontiac TranSport 3.8 dumped all of it's antifreeze on the road
before I bought it. It ran untill it seized (about 20 miles). I bought
it - knowing it needed an engine - and it started and ran quietly but
with high emissions that would never pass - No blown head gasket, or
damaged bearings. Either rings or valve seals had definitely failed.
I put in a rebuilt that only lasted about 60,000 miles (just under
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:52:01 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
Thats weird how something like that would help cool.
True, but at least there is a backup.
I never seen that happen, but I suppose it could. I did have one
dripping gas once. However I heard from a mechanic that he actually
witnesses a car explode from a shorted in tank fuel pump. He said this
dont happen often, but has happened quite a few times. I personally
dont like the idea of having an electric wire inside a tank of explosive
gas. One spark is all it takes.
I have had vapor lock on older cars nore than once. I still have a car
with a mechanical fuel pump and carb. Well over 200,000 miles. I have
never changed the FP. So those forties cars needed their FP changed
about as often as these new in tank ones. Seems everyone I know is
always changing them. Ive done my share too.
I once got a laen mower where the piston was welded to the cylinder. I
took a block of wood an hammer and pounded down the piston. Cyl was all
grooved up, but it started and ran, just kind of smoky, but I used it
for several years after that.
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 01:06:12 -0600, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
It does not help cool. It just makes it take longer to heat up.
Thermal mass is king. With, let's say 5 times as much thermal mass, it
takes 5 times as long to reach a given temperature (and to cool off
Which is useless if it has also failed.
Actually it is EXTREMELY rare - I have NEVER heard of it (and I AM a
mechanic - although not currently earning my living in the trade). In
order for the tank to explode from a spark - or even a BLOW TORCH
inside the tank, the tank would need to be vented to the atmosphere -
and the mixture would need to be EXTREMELY diluted by air. With fuel
vapour density at least 3 or 4 times that of air, the vapour naturally
displaces the air in the tank -The flamability range of gasoline is
from 1.2 to 7.1:1 by weight
Well, both of my old fuel injected Chryslers went over 240,000km on
the original pump. My 1995 TransSport went over 300,000. My friend's
Honda went over 700,000, and so did my neighbour's GMC pickup.
Personally - and in my immediate family, I have NEVER had an electric
fuel pump fail. The Pontiac used to draw air and stup if I hit
washboard road below 1/4 tank - but that's all.
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:38:12 -0500, email@example.com wrote:
You either have good luck or you got better pumps. A local mechanic
said 60% of his business is replacing in-tank pumps. My 91 GMC truck
developed a leak in the lines on top of the pump outside of tank. I
replaced that with a used part, but the same pump. Couple weeks later
that pump died, I put in a new one. That lasted a couple months and
died. That's when I sawed a hole in the box because I refused to drop
the tank again. I got a used pump from the junkyard, put it in, and
sold the truck. Main reason I sold it was the pump issues.
A friend has a small Chevy pickup, he's been thru 3 pumps in 2 years.
The first replacement only lasted 2 months. Seems the ones sold at the
parts stores are all crap. I will say that the guy always runs his
truck on almost empty. Puts in 3 gallons at a time, so that may be part
of his problem. But either way, it seems all I hear locally is fuel
I had an 86 Olds compact car which is the one that stranded me on that
very cold night cuz of the pump. The car had other problems too, so
after the pump went, I junked the car.
I like my old carbureted Chevy Caprice with mech fuel pump. It just
keeps going and going with no engine problems. Biggest problems on that
car have been worn front end parts and the brakes seem to have a rather
short lifespan, but I'll live with that.
My next truck is going to have a carb, no matter how old it is.
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:14:03 -0600, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
They were all original equipment pumps.
1985 Lebaron, 1988 New Yorker, 1995 TranSport. 92 Civic, and1996 GMC
Pickup. All lasted over 12 years - the Chryslers 0ver 18.
When I was actively working as a mechanic we had more problems with
the wiring outside the tank, and rusted lines on the fuel guage unit
than pumps themselves. Hardly had any actual failed pumps on Toyotas
- carbureted or injected - intank or frame mounted pumps.
A LOT of the replacement parts ARE junk. But the cheapassed driver who
can't figure out that filling the top third costs the same as the
bottom third deserves to change a lot of fuel pumps.
You can have it. Carburetor rebuilds - leaky floats, sticky and leaky
needle valves, bad accellerator pumps, sticky and malfunctioning
chokes, bad fuel mileage and high exhaust emissions, perculation when
hot - all the problems that have been virtually eliminated by fuel
Agreed! Fuel injection is much simpler and reliable... and with OBDII
easier to troubleshoot
If your after a truck, get a for real truck... not one of those
expensive 'truck like product' gimmicks that seem to be everywhere
now... go for a Tundra or Tacoma.
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