Yikes! Do me a favor and don't drive behind me! I don't feel like having the hassle of repairing my car when you crash into it!
Different pads will not increase braking performance??!!??!?!?!?!? Where'd you get that from??
Actually, not good information! Unless you like buying master cylinders! Go ahead and push that piston in. Along with all the old fluid is dirt and other crap. So go ahead and push all that up into the master. More times than not, you'll mess up that master. Proper way is to open the bleeder, then press the piston. When done with your brake job, top off the master as necessary.
And no, most new pads don't require anti-squeal. Not if the job is done properly. It all depends on the surface of your rotor. And it depends on proper installation of your pads. Crimp the ears if it has them. Make sure your clips are in good shape and properly installed. If the manufacturer doesn't recommend NOT turning the rotors, them turn them. If not, then feel free to enjoy your vehicle pulling to one side or another when you stop.
Sure, you only pay $5 per wheel for pads. But you'll pay that a lot more than I will. I'll get more miles and wear out of my brake job and spend less than you in the long run. I have no interest in keeping the $5 a wheel brake pad people in business. My interest is in a cost effective brake job that will get maximum miles on both the pads and the rotors and not ruining the master, all at the same time!
This question id for alt.autos Unless you live in your car.
Pads have "squealers in them to let the owner know that brake shoes need to be replaced; have a trustworthy mechanic check them.
No, I think the way you approach and do brake jobs should be taken off the market.
You didn't understand the thread about different friction materials and different friction rates would apply?? Locking up the wheels is not a goal! Once you have locked up the wheels, you have lost control! Between applying brakes and the wheels locking up is stopping distance. Different friction materials will result in different stopping distances.
Now, if you still think locking up the wheels is a good thing, don't get behind me if you are driving in wet or icy conditions. If you feel that locking up your wheels is a good thing on a dry day in dry driving conditions, then please let me know how you have mapped out every oil slick on every road out there. Why do you think anti-lock brakes stop in a shorter distance than regular brakes?? Tire friction is not the best way to stop your car! Brakes are!
And I hope this helps. Any person that thinks the traction of their tires is stopping their car instead of the pads is an idiot.
The brakes slow the rotors, which slow the wheels. The tires, mounted on the wheels, slow the vehicle due to friction created between the tire surface and the road/driving surface.
If this is incorrect, please explain how the "pads" stop the vehicle.
DJ
You can't even spell a simple word like "brake". You have no credibility here.
Greetings,
Yes, I have heard of 'brake fade'.
It is not just caused by excessive heat lowing the pad's coefficient of friction. In fact, brake fade is most often caused by boiling brake fluid. This is often because the brake fluid has absorbed water lowering its boiling point. Brake fade could be caused by carbon-dioxide coming out of solution within the brake fluid at high temperatures. Brake fade could be caused by outgassing of brand new brake pads (even expensive ones). Brake fade could be caused by the expansion of hot rubber brake hoses. There are probably many more.
Interestingly brake pads which perform better at higher temperatures perform worse at lower temperatures and cause markedly more rotor wear. This is why race car drivers need to "warm up" their brakes. Also interestingly the type of pads used don't have much effect on how much heat is generated. It generates the same amount of heat to slow a car from 65 to 0 no matter what pad is used. Most interestingly and most pertinent is that the $9.99 Semi-Metallic brake pads I purchased don't build up enough heat going from 65 to 0 to cause brake fade due to reduced coefficient of friction between the pad and the rotor. The coefficient of friction is still high enough to lock the wheels if I so chose throughout the entire deceleration.
If I sped up to 65 mph and then slammed on my brakes until I went to 0 and repeated the process several times I could cause brake fade. I don't have to worry about that because I would never do it. If with Kevlar-Carbon brakes I could repeat the process an additional two times before brake fade set in it's not worth a dollar extra to me.
Hope this helps, William
'cept that you have forgotten about pedal effort. Plus, different friction materials will act differently because no one uses brakes from 0 effort to maximum or upper limit. Pedal effort. Different friction materials, different stopping rates. And different friction materials means different costs.
OK, have a good weekend. I'll try to focus on answering JerryL's brake fade question.
I use the same rotors everyone else does but I get them off of cars at the junk yard. If you look at just four cars chances are you will find a set with 80%+ life left. If it takes you 1/2 hour extra to buy your rotors this way you are earning $200/hr after tax vs. paying $65 each in the store.
Plus you are recycling, reducing the trade deficit, and employing Americans (if you care about that sort of thing).
Did you ever hear of 'brake fade'. It's caused by excessive heat on the pads. When the pads heat up they will not stop the car normally.
As a couple of others have pointed out many cars have an early warning device. If your wheels are chirping and stop when you apply moderate pressure to the brake pedal then it is the early warning system telling you it is time for new pads.
Don't wait. Do it now. And don't fall for that sucker line advertised on TV that guarantees them for life. They will screw you and won't even kiss while doing it.
Colbyt
Greetings,
I ran through your experiment and it doesn't seem to work for me.
OK, the only way you could apply a constant external torque is by making the wheels rapidly accelerate with no brakes applied.
OK, this means that each pad will press against the rotor with equal force.
OK, I'll pretend the pads are Teflon and Asbestos.
As I apply hydraulic pressure the wheels will slow. The Teflon wheel will always spin faster than the Asbestos wheel at a fixed external torque and certain hydraulic pressure. Eventually the Asbestos pad wheel will stop once the hydraulic pressure is high enough. Later the Teflon pad wheel will come to a stop once the pressure is still higher.
Why? Why is the Asbestos pad worse than the Teflon one just because it locked the brakes first? I don't get it.
No you cannot. The front wheels will spin at the same speed and so the same external torque will not be exerted as suggested in your experiment (unless there is a different hydrolic pressure on each side which again is in violation of your experiment).
I was so happy when I almost thought you had it Matt. I think you have come the closest yet. William
Well, I didn't hear you say how a late model Dodge pickup master cyclinder should be checked for leaks, but we weren't talking about that or disconnecting batteries. So what either has to do with brake pads, I don't know. BTW, you don't own one of those pickups, do you, 'cause then I really don't want you behind me!
If you are using those Chinese rotors, I really don't want you in the car behind me!
But if you are really using the cheap rotors and pads, and doing them yearly, you are doing more brake work than necessary! And spending a lot more time doing brakes and paying for a lot more material than I would ever have to.
Okay, if you didn't say that, you didn't say it. I must have misunderstood.
Not nonsense if you had believed that locking up wheels was a good thing. Disregard.
Except that you leave too many variable out. Any pad?? Okay, I'll give you a set of my specially made teflon pads. Tell me you can generate enough pedal pressure to create the friction equal to a semi-metallic pad. You can't do it, the system isn't design for it. Bring it up to max pressure without locking? The teflon would give you lubricating properties. All pads are not created equal!
Or let's try this. Your pads have lost all their material. You are now stopping with brakes metal to metal. Bring your caliper pressure up to but not locking the wheel. That direct metal will give you a lot more "grab" than a pad with material. The friction happens quicker and more aggressively. You will slow quicker. In a shorter distance than pads with material.
Remember, we are talking about vehicle brake systems, not a "perfect" world where everyone reaches max pressure without locking. Different diameter rotors, different size pucks, different size pistons, etc, etc. Pad material makes a difference.
But enough, I don't like talking "work" on my weekends!
What do you care, or even know? When not screwing it, you ride a mule anyway...
You're full of shit, deans_an_asswipe.
Greetings,
Turn the computer off. Disconnect all of the cables and other connections into the computer, including the telephone line connection for the modem, the printer connection, the monitor connection, and everything else. Also unplug the power connector from the PC. It's important that nothing external to the computer be connected before you start the upgrade so that nothing outside of the computer can provide any kind of electrical current to the computer while you are working on it. It's not getting electrocuted that's the concern, it's that some tiny electrical charge might come in at the wrong time and destroy a component. It's not uncommon for a computer to draw a little bit of electrical current while it is plugged in, even when it has been powered off, so that's why it's important to unplug the power connector, too.
If you're not used to disconnecting everything then you'll want to at least carefully note where each connection was attached. The first time I did this, I used a short strip of masking tape to scribble a little note for each connection and then I wrapped the tape around the cord before I disconnected it. Each connection should only connect one way, so there's no need to remember how the connection was oriented before it was disconnected. But chances are you've got a nice little collection of connections into your computer, so you don't want to be looking at a confused pile of disconnected wires when you're done installing the memory!
Set the computer in a nice comfortable work space (personally, I just use the middle of the floor) and remove the computer case cover.
Read the rest at
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