OT - Broadcast Antenna Reception

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Quickly looked for a NG to post this but didn't see one. Well, saw one but it looked like a spammers feeding ground.
Anyone know if regular TV airwave broadcasting power is reduced at night?
Seems during the day a bunch of free digital TV stations come in. Sometime in the evening around 11pm-12am they all go away (no signal msg). Pic is crystal clear when it comes in. When they disappear, just the same as a station that doesn't come in at all ever.
All I have in an old indoor antenna I tried just to see if it worked and was quite surprised with this digital stuff. Most broadcast signals come from the capitol about 45 air miles from me.
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Red Green wrote:

No, but but radio propagation changes as our general location changes from light/dark/light.

Thats pretty much how "digital" transmissions work. There are no snowy or fuzzy pictures. It is all or nothing.

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George wrote:

That's "no, as in TV stations don't do the FCC-mandated lower power at sundown radio thing" to remove any possible ambiguity...
...

And I'm expecting we'll have the latter when the transition occurs--nothing. We're on extreme fringe relying on translators already so we'll be back to the dark ages of the 30's again.
--
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dpb wrote:

Translator stations are not required to to switch to digital (as yet).
Jerry
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the digital transmitter power levels are way lower than analog, its highly possible you wouldnt be able to see the digital version since most are UHF which doesnt propogate as well.
the stations kinda like digital it will cut their electric bill
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Jerry wrote:

AFAIK it depends on their power -- and as far as what I've been able to glean from the central stations these are switching, too...but, I'd be more than happy to learn otherwise.
--
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dpb wrote:

Look here (http://www.dtv.gov/DTV_booklet.pdf ) on page 5 at the paragraph titled "DTV Why Now". They haven't even set a deadline for low-power and translator stations yet.
And here (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html ) is an FCC document that directly addresses low-power and translator stations.
A neighboring cabin near mine in Flagstaff AZ is owned by the chief engineer of Channel 10 and Channel 45 in Phoenix (incidentally, he has the best TV reception in the area, walked his roof with a portable spectrum analyzer while deciding where to position his antenna). He's got his hands full just transitioning his full-power stations. They haven't even started thinking about the repeaters around the state yet - well, maybe thinking but not doing yet. I imagine equipment budget has a lot to do with it. That, and there's no hard deadline.
Jerry
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Jerry wrote:

and I bet he came up with putting the antenna on the side of the house closest to the transmitters and out of the way as possible from any trees or other obstructions?.
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Jerry wrote: ...

I repeat these are _not_ LP translators -- they're as strong (or stronger) than the metro stations for which they translate -- we're located almost 70 miles from the nearest--LP don't cut it.
That document also notes over 2000 have committed to DTV in the class despite the lack of a mandate under which they could apparently escape if they were to choose to do so. The point is, it's apparently their call which way to go.

What that particular station has decided to do has nothing whatever to do w/ what these have decided; which afaik is still to make the switchover of them at the same time based on the information they're putting out on their plans and the conversion.
--
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subscribed to the full menu of HD programming so these HD channels are from local stations that are also on the air. I only receive them via the cable.
On these local channels I get receive some of them three ways Good old analog, digital at standard resolution and digital high definition
I have had occasion to get pixelated displays. I have no clue as to where the problem lies. The analog signals look clean but the digital ones sometimes get pixelated. Not often but it can happen.
Charlie
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wrote:
[snip]

Yes, digital signals can be pixilated. I suppose some of those who claim it's impossible just haven't seen it themselves (limited experience) and the rest are repeating something they heard, without thinking.
The statement that digital either works 100% or not at all, is true ONLY when you ignore time. Signal strength can vary considerably over a short period of time, repeatedly crossing the threshold of giving a good picture. This produces pixellation.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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Oh I've seen pixelated if what we are calling the same name. The pic sortta freezes and the "squares" (much larger than a pixel on a PC) are jumbled. I usually see this on what appears to be a weak signal. Sometimes it will go back to normal, sometimes it goes black screen & sometimes the cheapo CRT TV goes blue screen and displays like Unusable Signal.
If they don't reduce the wattage they send out (actually I've seen it happen a bit before 11 and as late as 12:30am), I wonder what causes it kind of regularly.
I really don't watch much TV at all and that's why I don't bother getting cable. I was up in VT for many years and broadcast reception was virtually non existent. This digital broadcast reception being near a major city is like reliving childhood in the tri-state NY, NJ, CT area only with color and more stations than 2-13.
I may just try putting some kind of cheapo small outdoor multi- directional antenna up without going to the old winged thing. The chimney is right near where the TV is and on the correct side of the house facing the direction antennaweb.org says to point it. Duct tape should work :-) Getting it outside and up 20ft might do wonders...or I may wonder why it doesn't do anything different.
Red...
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wrote:

I have a townhouse and I'm just using a 5 foot piece of wire lying on the floor behind my DVDR. I get all the Baltimore stations, where I live, but not the DC stations 50 miles away. I have to fix the attic amplified antenna, or at least run a wire up to the attic and see how that does.

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With the priviso that I am not an engineer and basing this solely on some hazy memories from my Short Wave Listening days about 40 years ago.. Have you tried changing the orientation of the wire? If it is (for instance) now running north and south, have you tried to see what happens if it runs east to wst?
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wrote:

That's a good idea for the poster before me.
For me, not yet. A) I"v heard the digital stations are not broadcasting on full power until next February, so I'm thinking after they start, I may get DC stations without my doing anything.
B) My bedroom is crowded. :(
c) I'm hoping to find some little problem with, or replace the amplified antenna in the attic**. That points pretty much south and can easily be turned. You're right the wire in my bedroom goes east-west.
d) I have a lot of experience in this location, and the only thing I don't know is if I digital signals will give different results. Right now I'm still using analog if only because channel surfing is a lot faster. (I barely care about picture quality. I don't know why I don't care.)
**I replaced it once and now I think the one I disconnected still works. I may go back to it. At a rummage sale I bought one that rotates. I think it works. And maybe I'll find that mice at the wire or something. I don't feel like going up into the attic now. I have to get up early before it gets hot up there.
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On Sun 03 Aug 2008 06:38:28a, Red Green told us...

You might post your question to rec.antiques.radio+phono. There are a lot of experts in that group, and I'm sure you'll get some answers.

--
Wayne Boatwright
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Red,
No, They don't decrease transmission power at 11:00PM. Write to the offending stations. My guess is they stop programming at 11:00.
Dave M.
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Yeah; we get just the opposite here: The analog stations stop at 11 or 12 but the digital stays on. Doesn't matter what's on, they'll go off even in mid-commercial.
Digital signals are just not capable of transmitting as far as analog due to the interference that distorts the signal, where on analog you could still get a watchable picture and sound. We're on the fringes here; I added 30 dB of amplification to mine and still don't get good service on digital.
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At first, I thought we were completely hosed out here. It's an uncabled area, and we're in a hole with no clear view in any direction but East, so satellite won't work either, even though it does next door.
Last week, trying again, and getting frustrated, I set the box to scan, and it found eight channels, or so it said. When I went to watch, there was either nothing (no signal) except with one station where it was all pixillated. I put the remote down, and picked up the tv remote to turn the set off, and suddenly I was looking at a perfect picture. I put the tv remote back down, and the set went to no signal. Pick up the remote again, and it worked. I put the tv remote down somewhere else, and picked up the converter remote, and I did indeed have 8 channels, and they all work fine. I'm not sure what interference the tv remote puts on the converter, but the converter on top of the tv set is the only logical flat space, so it's a matter of reconditioning myself now.
I should note that, with the hills around us, we had strong reception, for a couple of channels, but lots of copies of each, so it's never been fun to watch regular broadcasts with all the shadowing we get.
I thought I'd replace the rooftop antenna with something new instead of using rabbit ears, but even that is hard to find now.
It's the brave new world, and I don't care anymore. 25 yrs without reliable tv has weaned me.
Keith
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On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 13:44:38 -0400, "TWayne"

Might be able to find out just be calling, without writing, but writing is good.

You're saying that interference distorts the digital signal too? I don't think so.

I've heard that digital signals are not transmitting at full power and won't until next February, but I can't confirm this. I also have no idea what fraction of full power they might be at.
I'm also not sure that full power is as much power as analog transmitters use, because generally it's not necessary. Even a weak digital signal will give great reception if it's strong enough. :) But it doesn't halep to make it stronger.
Still, I think if they don't use as much power, I keep thinking some people, like me and you won't get reception at all from stations more than say 45 miles away.
Line-of-sight issues make it unlikely to get reception past 50 miles, but a tall antenna, on a hill, and living on a hill increase those distances. Unlike AM radio, TV doesn't bounce off the ionosphere, or whatever, so it won't go around the world like short wave.
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