OT: Another sure sign of a country in decline

Page 5 of 8  
Per Robert Green:

That seems like a very basic tactical observation: do not let the other guy manipulate you into action by pushing your buttons. I tried to teach this to my #2 grand daughter and am pretty sure I was successful.
Seems to be a fundamental technique in organized protests: incite the police to take action that outrages the rest of the country and get it on film. The "Chicago Police Riots" being a case in point.... as was much of the Civil Rights Movement.
And the police do not seem to catch on. When was the Rodney King thing ? 1991 ? 1992 ?..... At that point every cop in the USA should have been on notice that his activities could be video-recorded without his knowing about it..... 20+ years later we get some retard pumping multiple rounds into a guy's back - on camera, of course..... Seems like, individually, police officers are very slow learners.
--
Pete Cresswell

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On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:28:13 AM UTC-5, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

One incident of one cop shooting one fleeing suspect in the back, in a country of 330 mil, with over a million cops. From that you conclude that police officers are very slow learners and there is some widespread problem? Good grief.
Cops aren't slow learners. The Black Lies Matter loons, with the full support of the Democratic Party, Sharpton, Obama, de Blasio, the Baltimore mayor, etc have sent a clear message. And the cops have heard it, they are staying in their cars. They learned that fast and now the crime rate is rising sharply in major cities. Even Comey, Obama's FBI director acknowledges it.
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 06:52:13 -0800 (PST), trader_4

In virtually any other gvt agency mistakes of the level made by cops such as killing suspects needlessly, brutalizing people during arrests, illegal searches, and on and on, gross violations of those kinds would, in any other agency, result in immediate firing. But for cops it's almost always a slap on the wrist and back on the streets.
The cop who was a hero because he was killed by the "three guys" who we just found out was actually a suicide turned out to have a LONG LONG list of infractions including falling asleep DRUNK at the wheel of his idling cruiser. Plus several reprimands for sexual harassment. Plus a reprimand for threatening to kill one of the other employees. Yet he was STILL on the job after ALL of those things. There was a letter sent to the "boss" from more then a dozen other employees that the guy was destroying the moral of the department. Yet he was still on the job.
You see it time and time again when one of these cops finally does something they can't cover up and his personnel file is released, quite often it's a long list of red flags. I fired people from my agency for far far less then this kind of crap. Virtually no agencies except law enforcement agencies accept this kind of horrible job performance. It sends a message, and an accurate one, to cops that you can get away with literally murder and keep your job.
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On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:26:18 AM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

First the obvious issue that went right over your head is that we have a country of 330 mil, 1.1 mil cops. Of course you're going to have some incidents, but we don't have the horrific, widespread level of problem that the Black Lies Matter and their lib supporters would have you believe. It's a tiny number of incidents, yet they are running around calling for death to cops, totally lying about what happened, eg Ferguson which was the biggest lie of all.
Second, since in any other agency, the result is immediate firing, show us some examples. Anyone fired at IRS after that abuse? Anyone fired at the state dept for lack of proper security for Benghazi that resulted in a dead US ambassador and 3 other Americans?

Tell that to all the officers from Ferguson, to Baltimore to the one who hauled the black student out of her seat.

Perhaps you should watch that video with the gumballs about immigration. You appear to have a problem with numbers.

What public agency is that, where you can fire so easily?
Virtually no agencies

Almost every govt agency accepts exactly that and more. Try firing an incompetent teacher.
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Per trader_4:

One idea that is missing from the discussion is the possibility that totally-correct, by-the-book performance by police may perceived by the people they they are policing as something else entirely.
I have a nephew in Germany who now hates cops - and, trust me, Germans *own* respect for authority.
He had been working as a bicycle messenger in NYC for two years, so he wasn't exactly naive.... but when he came to visit us in a suburb of Philadelphia, he found himself face down on asphalt.... not charged, probably guilty of nothing but walking from the railroad station to our house....
And I would expect that the cop(s) involved played it straight from the book....but he didn't hate cops before...and now he does.
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Pete Cresswell

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Per trader_4:

I take your point about the percentages.... but do we really have a handle on the numbers ?
At least one stand-up comedian has incorporated into his act the idea of how amazing it is that police misconduct has suddenly spiked *exactly* coincident with widespread use of cameras by the populace.... and that there is clearly some cause-effect relationship: get rid of those cams and police misconduct will stop again..... -)
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It's unfortunately antithetical to the beliefs of at least a few cops who believe that if people push your buttons, you break their fingers (sarcasm alert). With some people it may be the only way to get them to stop.

Good for you, grandpa! (-: Learning how to deal with deliberate provocation is an important lesson and it's harder for some people to learn than others.
I have a friend who has been completely sucked down the rabbit hole of such a problem and allows her ex to get her incredibly riled up about the things he writes about her on Facebook. I've told her not to look but she just can't do it. So sad. She goes around angry for days on end and in the end lets him control her from miles and miles away.

PLO/Hamas tactic number one. Netanyahu recently complained that it was very hard for Israel to counter the photographs of babies killed during the last dust-up. Equally effective as propaganda are the video clips that show IDF members shooting Arab children (highly edited to remove the footage of any bad behavior by Palestinians that prefaced the shootings).

Ah yes, one of my favorite CRM photos was of a man holding a US flag on a pointed-tip flagpole charging into a crowd during a busing protest.
Gandhi used passive resistance to great effect as well. LEO's often have a very hard time dealing with such tactics. A single cop usually can't deal effectively with a protestor who "goes limp." You'll probably recall images of how it takes several cops to deal with such people (one for each limb) effectively.

It's a combination of poor training and personality issues. Many people become LEOs out of genuine desire to "protect and serve." But quite a few join so they can drive fast, carry a gun and push people around.
It's scary that so many of them seem oblivious to the ubiquitous presence of video cameras. My wife expressed concern about being traffic-stopped because of videos of (mostly white) cops behaving badly and dragging women out of their cars, chairs and pools. What would have happened in SC if the cop had been black and the girl in the chair a blue-eyed, golden curled true Southern debutante-to-be?
--
Bobby G.



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On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 10:39:39 AM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

Again, the loon narrative. "So many". There are a handful of these incidents in a country of 330 mil, with 1+ mil cops.
My wife expressed concern about being traffic-stopped

You get dragged when you resist arrest. Every one of those incidents, and it's been a very few, whether it was a car, chair or pool, the perp was resisting arrest. Does your wife resist arrest much?

Nothing. Because there isn't an industry of race baiting, riot inciting radicals looking to exploit black on white violence. There is plenty of black on white crime, little of it is reported, they avoid even mentioning race in those cases, and there is no White Lies Matter movement to turn it into a racial event. There are a few white cops mistreating white suspects, but it gets little coverage and no movement is there to rev it up with lies.
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On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:23:17 -0800 (PST), trader_4

In other first world countries the number of citizens killed by cops is about 1-one-hundredth the number killed here. The US police kill about 1000 citizens a year. In all of the rest of the developed west about 10 citizens are killed each year.
If there is a loon narrative it is yours...
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On 11/7/15 10:39 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

As are the number of cops killed by citizens. Cause and effect. Even the WaPo notes that 80% of those killed by the cops every year are killed in self-defense. Up to 85% if you work back in the number who are LATER found to have toy guns (how you make the differentiation in real time is beyond the ken of all but the most elite journalists). Also "unarmed" can be a rather squishy subject since at least two of the unarmed people that I am more or less personally familiar with beating the bejeesus out of the cop when they were shot and one lost an eye. I wouldn't say that most people within arms length are unarmed, but that is the definition used.

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Per Kurt V. Ullman:

Having mis-spent almost 10 years of my youth in Hawaii, the statement "Shot an unarmed man..." tends to push my buttons.
For several of those years, I trained with guys who, "Unarmed", could kill or maim somebody without even raising a sweat. In fact, some of them had a hobby: one lone guy would provoke a group of GI's into a fight and then half-kill them just for fun.
I came out of those years still not being able to fight my way through a wet Kleenex ("Creampuff" was the term-of-art...).... but I do think I know something about how meaningless the word "Unarmed" is.
So "Unarmed", to me, means nothing - except that the reporter was lazy and/or the audience was judged too dumb to catch nuances.
--
Pete Cresswell

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Per Robert Green:

I have always been slightly suspicious of guys who become cops because they have a strong desire to do so. Not a *lot* suspicious.... but slightly.....
Like you say, many are genuine... I might even say most.... But I think that at least some are like pyromaniacs who are attracted to fire fighting and pedophiles who are attracted to jobs with kids.
I suspect those types are a significant driver in the current police culture of "Total, complete, immediate submission or get tased.... or beaten... or choked... or whatever.". I have been around enough to know that it has not always been that way in the USA - and that it is still not that way in some other countries.
Bunch of years ago I was reading an article about a guy who was named something like "Police Office Of The Year" by some law-enforcement organization or another.
One question was "You always wanted to be a police officer, right?".
And the answer was, IMHO, telling - something to the effect of: "Well, no... I never even thought about becoming a police officer, but I was out of work, needed a job, and I saw a sign that said the police department was hiring."
FWIW, we have a big-city cop in our family and he is a genuine "Good Guy"..... but he *does* have stories....
--
Pete Cresswell

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<stuff snipped>

Way back in the day when I was a reporter it was well-known that (at least in our area) it was young, bored volunteer FF's who set the abandoned property fires. One of the most farmous serial arson cases in US history was traced back to an arson investigator.

We got stuck in a para-military maelstrom after 9/11 that is only now starting to get scaled back. The problem is that there's clearly some racial issues to resolve. The Washington Post has been doing a year-long study to show that unarmed black men are seven times more likely to be killed by police than unarmed whites.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/08/08/black-and-unarmed/

Which is why I am a little uncomfortable with Hillary - she's wanted the job for a long time. Rumor has it she has the presidential seal tattooed on her scalp.
I propose a national lottery of all eligible adults - the *winner* gets to be president. How much worse can a Random Joe or Jane be than what we've had? Surely we've proved that the uninformed and the unqualified can get elected. Think of the money we would save.

When I was a reporter I had a lot of cop friends and except for a few flakes, they were all good people that would go way out of their way to help a friend. But God help you if you were a dumb ER surgeon who told one of my cop friends (as he was being ticketed for speeding) "If you ever come into my ER with a sucking chest wound, I am going to let you die." It ranks with cussing out the cooking staff while they're preparing your food. Ot-nay Oo-tay Right-bay. That surgeon clearly didn't think out what pissing off a beat cop might bring.
--
Bobby G.



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Per Robert Green:

Somewhere, something I read by somebody who sounded like they knew enough to have a valid opinion, boiled down to the idea that anybody who wants to be president of the USA badly enough to actually get there must have something basically wrong with them.
Seems like two of our presidents to whom history has been especially kind; Harry Truman and Gerald Ford; were more-or-less thrust into the office against their will.
--
Pete Cresswell

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On 11/6/15 7:19 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Dont' know if Douglas Adams qualifies as someone who knows enough to have a valid opinion, but here it is.
"One of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them: It is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. Anyone who is capable of getting themselves into a position of power should on no account be allowed to do the job. Another problem with governing people is people.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ]Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
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<stuff snipped>

Truman especially. It's hard to believe that up until the day he took over as President, he did not know about the US having an atom bomb.
Following in FDR's multi-term shoes must have been hard, too.
Not sure how I feel about Ford - I know that proclamation 4311 (blanket pardon for Nixon) bothered me a lot more then than it does now. But it still bothers me. So does any "resign and we won't prosecute" deal because we wouldn't get any such deal as common citizens. I think Palin made such a deal. IIRC, so did Weiner and many, many others. That happens because there are many that believe a fall from grace is punishment enough for the sins of those so blessed.
--
Bobby G.



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On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 8:43:25 AM UTC-5, Robert Green wrote:

See how you feel when Obama grants Hillary a pardon before he leaves office.
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HRC signed some sort of secrets contract. It said she can be hit with criminal penalties for allowing secrets to become public. From investors.com http://tinyurl.com/nlkfn3g
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Oren posted for all of us...

It would have to be determined she is a female first. It would be interesting if this were true; as a victim myself. Probably deleted from her server...
--
Tekkie

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wrote:

I doubt Hillary has ever said "pardon me" in her life.
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