OT: America, still the Home of the Brave

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You DID see the smiley face after the line? Jeez, HeyBub, you've slowed down a lot. The point was that even a die-hard Republican like "Dirty Harry" could make a film that had a very strong anti-war sentiment to it.
-- Bobby G.
*ETCHBERGER, RICHARD L. Rank and Organization: Chief Master Sergeant, U.S. Air Force, Detachment 1, 1043d Radar Evaluation Squadron. Place and date: Phou Pha Thi, Laos, 11 March 1968. Entered service at: Hamburg, Pennsylvania. Born: 5 March 1933. Chief Etchberger, without hesitation, repeatedly and deliberately risked his own life, exposing himself to heavy enemy fire in order to place three surviving wounded comrades into rescue slings. Chief Etchberger finally climbed into an evacuation sling himself, only to be fatally wounded by enemy ground fire as he was being raised into the aircraft.
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<stuff snipped>

I should have realized that something would have to be pretty bluntly expressed for you to distill "sentiment" out of it. Try searching among the too numerous to count reviews, some of which say it's the greatest anti-war movie ever made.
http://www.google.com/search?q=letters+from+iwo+jima+anti-war+film
<< it comes as sweet irony that (as Kenneth Turan, Los Angeles Times, notes) "Individually and as a unit, these films are a cry against the awful, horrifying futility of war, a cry made all the more poignant because it is made by a man who has been an avatar of on-screen mayhem.">>
or:
<<The movie covers a stunning amount of ground without being very long, and every major character is given careful, insightful treatment. But Eastwood's greatest accomplishment transcends individual moments of artistry. With Letters from Iwo Jima, he approaches the elusive holy grail, given the entertainment value of battle sequences: the true anti-war film. >>
http://filmblather.com/films/lettersfromiwojima /
That you didn't see any anti-war sentiment certainly has no bearing on whether it was there. The emoticon escaped your notice as well and that wasn't even subjective. It was a "true/false" question. (-: "Didn't notice any anti-war sentiment." Are you sure you weren't watching "Postcards from the Edge" and got confused?
Even FOX says:
Clint Eastwood Makes a Huge Anti-War Statement With 'Iwo Jima' Monday, December 11, 2006 By Roger Friedman
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235805,00.html
You DO live in an alternate universe where up is down and black is white.
-- Bobby G. *FRATELLENICO, FRANK R. Rank and organization Corporal, U.S. Army, Company B, 2d Battalion, 502d Infantry, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division. Place and date: Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, 19 August 1970. Entered service at: Albany, N.Y. Born: 14 July 1951, Sharon, Conn. Cpl. Fratellenico retrieved a grenade and fell upon it an instant before it exploded. His heroic actions prevented death or serious injury to 4 of his comrades nearby and inspired his unit which subsequently overran the enemy position.
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Robert Green wrote:

It may be that "anti-war" is in the eye of the beholder.
I had one chap tell me that "Patton" was a movie illustrating the futility of armed conflict!
There was much to be said, back then, for the slogan: "Kill Japs! Kill Japs! Kill more Japs!"
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wrote in message

If FOX thinks it's an antiwar film, I'm going to have to suggest you see the eye doctor.

The issue that plagues most anti-war films is that critics seem to feel showing battle scenes glorifies combat and neutralizes any anti-war sentiment. I don't think Patton fills the bill. I'll have to search out my AFI Film series DVDs and review their picks. Platoon, IIRC, was considered an anti-war film. So was "The Deerhunter" even though I could make a much stronger case for that NOT being anti-war than I think I could Letters from Iwo. Apocalypse Now had its anti-war moments, but I think it was mostly a nihilist film that said "life is meaningless" and "boy did Brando pack on the pounds!"
There are probably a number of anti-war categories in these films. The overall futility of war is often the most common sentiment. But Iwo was singled out for demonstrating that Japan's leaders lied horribly to their citizens, leading to untold numbers of meaningless deaths. It also tried to show how much the Samurai code affected Japanese officers, again leading to thousands of needless deaths and preventing them from saving their own lives through surrender.
That leaves us with the burning question: Which was more anti-war: Hogan's Heroes or M*A*S*H?
-- Bobby G.
*HARVEY, CARMEL BERNON, JR. Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Company B, 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). Place and date: Binh Dinh Province, Republic of Vietnam, 21 June 1967. Entered service at: Chicago, Ill. Born: 6 October 1946, Montgomery, W. Va. An enemy round hit and armed a grenade attached to his belt. Quickly, he tried to remove the grenade but was unsuccessful. Realizing the danger to his comrades if he remained and despite the hail of enemy fire, he jumped to his feet, shouted a challenge at the enemy, and raced toward the deadly machine gun. He nearly reached the enemy position when the grenade on his belt exploded, mortally wounding Sp4c. Harvey, and stunning the enemy machine gun crew. His final act caused a pause in the enemy fire, and the wounded men were moved from the danger area.
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Robert Green wrote:

If you're talking about the MOVIE, "MASH," it's one of the few from which I walked out before it was over. Still, the event, even these many years later, brings a smile to my face.
As the new wife and I were standing in line to buy tickets, we were accosted by a peddler of the local "underground" (communist) newspaper. Dressed in fatigues and sporting a Che Guerva beard, this 4'11" twerp pushed a handful of half-tabloid-sized news rags in my direction and urged "Buy a Space City News. Get the truth!"
"I don't want your newspaper," said I. "But I admire you for selling them."
"Huh?" came back the reasoned reply.
"I, too, had a newspaper route as a young man," I told the hippie. "There's no better task to learn the American Way of buying low and selling high! Soon you'll be employing sub-contract labor at less than the minimum wage. You are a budding capitalist!"
Going on, I said: "I'm sure that if you stick with it you'll grow up to be a lion of Wall Street!"
The hippie pulled a Yosemite Sam and backpeddled off the scene hollering some of the most obscene themes I've ever heard.
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On 9/21/2011 3:22 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Netflixs recommends http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298744 /
LOL

People wear Che t-shirts so they can watch the veins on your forehead burst.

You have no life.
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JimT wrote:

Just yesterday I cancelled my Netflix subscription. I did it in response - as in straw/camel back - to the email from the Netflix CEO apologizing for the cavalier way in which the company raised its prices. And the partitioning of the service into two separate companies.
Obviously they are getting ready to sell their video-by-mail business to the remnants of Borders or Blockbusters. Or maybe a resurrected Railway Express.
I don't like to do business with entities who think their customers are fools.
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You may recall a long time ago I posted about longer and longer wait times as Netflix spent money not on new DVDs, but setting up video servers for their new streaming service.
CEO Hastings may be right when he talks about having to always be in growth mode, looking for new opportunities and responding to them. But I would suggest to him that a better way might be by NOT kicking the people who *built* their business in the teeth.
It became clear from their less and less functional website that they were pushing streaming very hard. I contacted customer service to complain, but they reacted strangely, as if they, too agreed that "biting the hand that built you" was a bad strategy but they couldn't overtly agree. But a well-placed sigh and TWO free disk rentals said alot.
I'll stick with NetFlix aka Quikster aka WTF until they really piss me off. Today I'll be asking for yet another replacement DVD for one that arrived scratched, snotted up and separating into two disks. This is happening quite a bit more often these days as they're taking DVD revenue to build and mainatin a streaming service I have little interest in. I watched it once at my friend's house and even with a high-speed connection there were considerable interruptions to the program flow which I find intolerable. I read in the WSJ that studios that once charged Netflix very little to stream their content are renegotiating much more expensive and limiting deals.
-- Bobby G. *JONES, WILLIAM A., III Rank and organization: Colonel, U.S. Air Force, 602d Special Operations Squadron, Nakon Phanom Royal Thai Air Force Base, Thailand. Place and date: Near Dong Hoi, North Vietnam, 1 September 1968. Entered service at: Charlottesville, Va. Born: 31 May 1922, Norfolk, Va. Col. Jones distinguished himself as the pilot of an A-1H Skyraider aircraft near Dong Hoi, North Vietnam. On that day, as the on-scene commander in the attempted rescue of a downed U.S. pilot, Col. Jones' aircraft was repeatedly hit by heavy and accurate antiaircraft fire. On one of his low passes, Col. Jones felt an explosion beneath his aircraft and his cockpit rapidly filled with smoke. With complete disregard of the possibility that his aircraft might still be burning, he unhesitatingly continued his search for the downed pilot . . . One round impacted the Yankee Extraction System rocket mounted directly behind the headrest, igniting the rocket . . . Despite searing pains from severe burns sustained on his arms, hands, neck, shoulders, and face, Col. Jones pulled his aircraft into a climb and attempted to transmit the location of the downed pilot and the enemy gun position to the other aircraft in the area. Completely disregarding his injuries, he elected to fly his crippled aircraft back to his base and pass on essential information for the rescue rather than bail out. Col. Jones successfully landed his heavily damaged aircraft and passed the information to a debriefing officer while on the operating table. As a result of his heroic actions and complete disregard for his personal safety, the downed pilot was rescued later in the day.
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JimT wrote:

Admittedly, they won't let me out much. Still, I get a great deal of satisfaction just sitting here at the computer.
You see, I've always believed adrenaline is good for people.
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wrote:

<stuff snipped>

<<You misconstrue the simian self-flagellator's meaning. He means that since that study is government funded, and he's jealous he didn't get in on the money end of the deal (all of his whack-whack-whack-iness is pro-bonobo), that all government should be eradicated.>>
Spit take! You're dirtying up my monitor on a regular basis. While I thought I had heard every law school and lawyer joke in the world, "pro-bonobo" is going to make the rounds with my lawyer buddies tonight.
Pro-bonobo - the quality of representation you get when you force a lawyer to work for free.
As for HeyBub's internal motives, I don't think even HE knows what they are.
-- Bobby G.
*GUENETTE, PETER M. Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Company D, 2d Battalion (Airborne), 506th Infantry, 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile). Place and date: Quan Tan Uyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, 18 May 1968. Entered service at: Albany, N.Y. Born: 4 January 1948, Troy, N.Y. An enemy grenade was thrown to Sp4c. Guenette's right flank. Realizing that the grenade would kill or wound at least 4 men and destroy the machine gun, he shouted a warning and smothered the grenade with his body, absorbing its blast. Through his actions, he prevented loss of life or injury to at least 3 men and enabled his comrades to maintain their fire superiority.
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<stuff snipped>

Which is why acts like Sgt. Meyer's can end either in a Medal of Honor or a court-martial.

Generations after your Dad really don't understand what it was like. It's like having a heart attack or terrible car accident. You think you can imagine what it's like but when it happens to you, you realize how little you really understood before. I see a sad cycle of humanity that causes us to endlessly repeat folly because those who have lived through the last huge misadventure have died off and no one *really* remembers what it was like. I was surprised to see how quickly the futility of the Vietnam war wore off.

In the old days, as a reporter, I would have said "blame the copy editor, reporters don't write headlines." But now I have to take the hit. With all the negative backbiting in Congress and in the country in general, I was overwhelmed to see that the spirit of cooperation wasn't dead and that a group of people standing around on the sidewalk could come together as one wonderfully cohesive unit to save that man.
Americans *need* to be reminded of what they can do when they stand shoulder to shoulder. Our current crisis is both economic and psycho-social. I believe there's some sort of guiding force in the universe. I get suspicious when two such events occur in such close temporal proximity. Fate, Kismet, whatever. When I saw both items, back to back on the news I felt there was a lesson to be learned from both events.

Only because of the subject title, explained below.

Let me allay your suspicions. There are countries where the car would have been stripped of anything quickly removable before (if ever) the police came. This kind of "pull together" heroism is a lot more rare than you may think. Google Lenny Skutnik, oh hell, I will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenny_Skutnik
He was the ONLY person of a crowd of onlookers to attempt to rescue drowning air crash victims. The heroism of the motorcycle rescuers was something I feared might have left America because of the partisan bickering. This incident marks the re-establishment of faith in my fellow Americans, shaken by assassins, bombers and nit-wits in Congress.

That's one way to read the subject line, but I don't think it's a very charitable one. It was meant to be a reference to the Star Spangled Banner, so I guess your beef is with the long-dead Francis Scott Key. (-"
"Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave. O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"
-- Bobby G.
*COKER, RONALD L. Rank and organization: Private First Class, U.S. Marine Corps, Company M, 3d Battalion, 3d Marine Division (Rein), FMF. Place and date: Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, 24 March 1969. Born: 9 August 1947, Alliance, Nebr. As he began to drag his injured comrade toward safety, a grenade landed on the wounded marine. Unhesitatingly, Pfc. Coker grasped it with both hands and turned away from his wounded companion, but before he could dispose of the grenade it exploded. Pfc. Coker, with supreme effort continued to crawl and pull the wounded marine with him.
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Personally I see nothing wrong with the headline. Saying America is the home of the brave certainly doesn't mean that others aren't too. Sheesh talk about touchy...

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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I'd have to say half of the complaints I got as a reporter were about headlines being inaccurate. I would always reply: What would you have written? That stymied most of them because they knew they didn't like what my copy editors wrote, but couldn't think of anything better in the incredible space limitation imposed on headlines. The other half were from people I had quoted who complained "That's what I SAID, but it's not what I MEANT." Double sheesh!
-- Bobby G.
*CONNOR, PETER S. Rank and organization: Staff Sergeant, U.S. Marine Corps, Company F, 2d Battalion, 3d Marines, 1st Marine Division (Rein), FMF. Place and date: Quang Nag Province, Republic of Vietnam, 25 February 1966. Born: 4 September 1932, Orange, N.J. He chose to hold the grenade against his body in order to absorb the terrific explosion and spare his comrades. His act of extreme valor and selflessness in the face of virtually certain death, although leaving him mortally wounded, spared many of his fellow marines from death or injury.
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and berated me because the quotes attributed to other the guy were wrong. Had to be since the other guy disagreed with him.
--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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On 9/16/2011 12:15 PM, Robert Green wrote:

You're getting all warm and fuzzy again. :-)

That would never happen here. :-)

Ehh. Wrap yourself up in a flag. I ain't buying it.
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wrote in messagenews:qIydnT-iR_768e7TnZ2dnUVZ_j-

Somebody's got to stand together. It's certainly not going to be Congress.

Where's here? I can't remember if you're in the US, Canada or parts elsewhere.

I'm not selling anything other than I was mightily impressed with what I saw: a bunch of random people on the street risking their lives for another human being. As for Star Spangled Banner quotes, your quarrel is with a dead man, Francis Scott Key. Take it up with him! (-:
-- Bobby G.
*CREEK, THOMAS E.
Rank and organization: Lance Corporal, U.S. Marine Corps, Company I, 3d Battalion, 9th Marines, 3d Marine Division (Rein), FMF. Place and date: Near Cam Lo, Republic of Vietnam, 13 February. Born 7 April 1950, Joplin, Mo. An enemy grenade was thrown into the gully where he had fallen, landing between him and several companions. Fully realizing the inevitable results of his action, L/Cpl. Creek rolled on the grenade and absorbed the full force of the explosion with his body, thereby saving the lives of 5 of his fellow marines.
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On 9/16/2011 5:38 PM, Robert Green wrote:

You put it in the header and now you don't want to stand by it. FSK never came into my mind.
I'm not surprised you had problems with headlines. (I think that was you). Just consider this another problem.
I was impressed too. But with the good hearted nature of man.
As for your other question. Any-town USA. Take a look at our crime stats.
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wrote:

True. There's an incredibly moving film about the Russians who died trying to contain the Chernobyl disaster. They actually treated their WWII heroes a hell of lot better than we do ours.
-- Bobby G.
*BLANCHFIELD, MICHAEL R. Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Company A, 4th Battalion, 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade. Place and date: Binh Dinh Province, Republic of Vietnam, 3 July 1969. Born: 4 January 1950, Minneapolis, Minn. Sp4c. Blanchfield unhesitatingly and with complete disregard for his safety, threw himself on a grenade, absorbing the full and fatal impact of the explosion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Blanchfield
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It's not a point, it's a platitude not worth the utterance. Making a broken record out of it is simply exposing someone's bias. Let's get Ol' Hee Haw started on the assorted races and indigenous people around the world. Wanna bet that he's either going to lump all of a particular race/creed/whatever into the same basket, thereby negating your support that he's making a point? I'm open to you setting the odds.
R
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It's not a point, it's a platitude not worth the utterance. Making a broken record out of it is simply exposing someone's bias. Let's get Ol' Hee Haw started on the assorted races and indigenous people around the world. Wanna bet that he's either going to lump all of a particular race/creed/whatever into the same basket, thereby negating your support that he's making a point? I'm open to you setting the odds.
R
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