Orangeburg Drain Pipe

Sorry about the misinformation - better cost breakdown in another post.

One part needs to be "fixed" at this point, but after that, what to do and when to do it is a concern.

Reply to
Charles Bishop
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My bad line was first discovered perhaps 15 years ago. The line had roots in all joints, 150 feet or so. They wanted 15 grand to replace the entire line including under the house/

I had the line snaked, and at most a couple times a year, early spring before the trees leaf out. dump a 25 pound bag of ROCK SALT in my basement wash tub, add very hot water, And mix with a shovel:)

This kills the roots but leaves the big mature trees around my home un harmed.

tree root killer can kill trees, it happended to a friend, cost him 2000 bucks to remove 2 trees

Reply to
bob haller

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. I assume that since the (N) pipe has to end up in the same place, the amount of digging (depth) would be the same (the path is down a slope with about a 4-5' (from memory) drop.

It has to be 6' down at the end to meet the line from the sewer.

I'll ask B&S what specs there are.

Reply to
Charles Bishop

3ft is about the limit for hand dug trenching. I just dug one about 30ft long by 2ft deep for a lamp post. Not real hard. I'm 70, but in unusually good shape.

Yes, read your update post. The 17K seems reasonable. Chemicals can put off the time the job needs to be done.

Reply to
Dan Espen

Flood the pipe when using chemicals. The roots are looking for water. If the pipes normally have an inch of water in them that's where the roots will be.

Someone mentioned that you could kill a tree. Once or twice a year, I think you're just going to kill part of the roots. The tree can survive that.

Reply to
Dan Espen

The plumber might have mentioned that the snaking could enlarge the opening the roots made, just making the problem worse.

Chemicals would create a sort of blockage made of wood in the hole.

Reply to
Dan Espen

When I fixed my gutter drain pipe, I used a snake to get the distance to the blockage, I only dug out the blocked pipe to the joints, about 6 or 8 feet of trench.

I used rubber couplings to attach a length of PVC.

Reply to
Dan Espen

well i can report i have a video tape of the roots entering the pipe at every joint. in the 20 years i have been doing this the only problem i had was the one time i got lazy and the line clogged. added salt water and line was open in hours.........

heres a idea just try it, iits not hazardous, and cheap too. just a few bucksfor 25 or 50 pounds.

my theory when you do this, i always use the hottest water possible.

i set the thermostat as hot as it will go.

the hot water with salt enters the line, as a steam cloud like hot shower, so it works on the entire linre........

its cheap enough to just try. most your out is a few bucks for the rock salt

Reply to
bob haller

The problem will only continue to get worse. Either have the pipes replaced with PVC or have the offending trees removed. No trees = no tree roots.

FWIW, I used a Stihl on mine.

Reply to
Two Stroke

The old pipe will come out as you dig, and probably in pieces. That dont matter, it's junk anyhow.

You need a trench wide enough that you can stand in it to level the base with hand tools and to stand in it while you glue the new pipes together. 18" to 24" wide should work. A Backhoe Loader is your best bet. (See here)

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Call DIGGERS HOTLINE before you dig, to identify any underground pipes, wires, etc. Look them up in your local phone book.

Reply to
Paintedcow

We have this in my neighborhood, and my neighbors tell me it is between $5,000 to $8,000 to replace the orangeburg (cleanout to city sewer line). Takes a couple of days from start to finish.

This is bringing in an excavator and digging it up, I haven't heard of anyone doing a reline job around here.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Danniken

This is likely a 4" drain line??? Roots will be all around and through from any direction is possible/probable; they won't just be located in one part of the pipe necessarily.

It'll be awfully difficult to pour enough water down the pipe to "flood" it and if did unless it is blocked or nearly so, the chemicals will just be flushed straight on through to the main anyway, doing minimal good on the way.

A regular dosing on a quarterly basis will have a decent chance of keeping growth from getting out of hand if they're once removed again.

Reply to
dpb

Another possible option may be to sign up for one of those sewer line protection plans depending on where he is located. Sometimes they are offered by water companies such as American Water. I think they cost about $10/month.

I usually do not sign up for those plans, but I did on just one property that I have. On all of the other properties, I skipped the plan. The one property where I signed up for the plan is one with a "problematic" existing sewer line. By that, I mean that the sewer line runs out to the street right under a HUGE oak tree and I think it is just a matter of time before I have a problem and I have to replace the sewer line (even thought it is a cast iron sewer line). Also, this sewer line apparently has a low spot just outside of the house but under a slightly raised porch. The line tends to get backed up once a year or so.

The way that the sewer line protection plan works is that if the line gets clogged, I can call them and they send someone out to clear the line. The cost to me is $50 for each such event. That's less than it would cost me to hire my own person to do it. And, in the past, I often found that I was not able to clear the line myself even though it has easy access in the basement. I use one of those 50-foot flat metal drain cleaning tools, not a rotating "auger"(?) type. I would have to rent one of the rotating auger machines since it has to reach out to about 40 or 50 feet, and the cost of renting one is almost the same as the $50 sewer protection line plan cost -- plus I would have to then do the work.

The point is just that for what I call a "problematic" or risky sewer line that may be susceptible to root intrusions etc, it may be worth signing up for a sewer line protection plan.

In the event that the sewer line does later need to be replaced, they cover a lot of the cost up to some maximum amount.

Reply to
TomR

That's an interesting possibility. Do they require an inspection before signing you up? Or limit what they pay in the first several years? Otherwise this sounds like healthcare coverage where you can sign up anytime and pre-existing conditions are covered, which is a recipe for disaster for the provider. Either disaster or it would have to cost a lot to cover the johnny-come-latelys with big problems.

Reply to
trader_4

My neighbor did this job himself.

He rented this little tiny trailered backhoe. I'd never seen a machine lik e this. It was basically a seat and a little tiny bucket, no more than six inches wide. It looked like a toy.

It was very slow, I saw him out there working all day running from the hous e to the street. One of those big construction backhoes could have done th e job in an hour, I imagine. But the little one worked fine. It looked li ke he went down from about two feet at the house to nearly four at the stre et.

There aren't going to be any roots under the street so I wouldn't worry abo ut that part.

If it's a three inch line, how big will it be after lining? I'd rather jus t replace it.

Reply to
TimR

ike this. It was basically a seat and a little tiny bucket, no more than s ix inches wide. It looked like a toy.

use to the street. One of those big construction backhoes could have done the job in an hour, I imagine. But the little one worked fine. It looked like he went down from about two feet at the house to nearly four at the st reet.

bout that part.

ust replace it.

Google "towable mini backhoe."

You could buy one cheaper than paying $17k.

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Reply to
TimR

She should contact her city or county to see if they have any programs to provide grants or low/no interest loans to homeowners to cover the cost of these types of repairs. Some local governments have emergency loan/grant programs, some have fixer-upper programs. The terms are usually much better than you'd get from a lender, in fact, for qualified homeowners and properties, some loans can be partially or completely forgiven.

The goal is to enable homeowners to make necessary but costly repairs or improvements to their properties when they can't afford it. Better to help out qualified homeowners/properties than to have them lose the house or have the house fall into wrack and ruin.

Reply to
Moe DeLoughan

I wondered the same thing when I signed up, but I didn't ask any questions. I just went ahead and signed up. They didn't ask me any questions.

I think the plan is worded that it doesn't start or take effect until 30 days after the sign-up. I assume that is to prevent people from signing up one day and then using the plan a few days later to correct an existing problem. I thought that I had remembered the plan saying something about pre-existing conditions (not sure), but on a quick look, I couldn't find that wording in the "Terms and Conditions" for my plan.

In my case, I think the plan is worthwhile even if somehow they were to try to deny me coverage later on regarding a complete replacement of the sewer line due to an alleged pre-existing condition or whatever. But, that's only because I encounter clogs frequently enough (maybe once a year or so) to make the $50 fee per unclog episode worthwhile. Plus, it is not an owner-occupied property, so I like the fact that I already have a company lined up to take care of the problem for me if the occupants call me with a clogged sewer line.

And, to be honest, I think the sewer line protection plan company would have a hard time denying me coverage now for an alleged pre-existing condition because I have had the plan for 2-plus years already.

For the OP, his line is clear now and it is working. So, my guess is that if he signs up now, he will be covered in the future despite whatever type of sewer line he has now and whatever the current condition of the line is regarding the root issue or whatever. If I had what he has, I would just sign up for the plan quick, fast, and in a hurry. My guess is that he already paid way more than 50 bucks to his plumber to get his sewer line unclogged this time around. And, I assume that the roots will do their thing again, and maybe even within the next 12 months. If that happens, he will have paid about 130 bucks for the plan for the first year (mine is $10.70 per month). And, I assume that's about what he had to pay the plumber for this unclog job, if not more.

My plan is through American Water. Here are some links to info about my plan, but I think the plans may vary by location, company, etc.

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Reply to
TomR

I previously posted another option -- a sewer line protection plan.

Or, as an alternative, maybe do the following (although I would sign up for the sewer line protection plan first and do this a month or two later):

Have a company come out that does sewer line video inspections and make a complete video (that you keep) of the entire sewer line.

You may have to do a little research to find a company that doesn't overcharge for that video service. In my area, the is a company that advertises that they do low-cost sewer line videos.

From that, determine where any problems may currently exist in the line.

Then think about only replacing the part of the line that is closest to the house (and not very deep) and go out a certain distance and connect up with the existing line. Connect up with the existing before you get to the street so you don't have the expense of digging up the street etc. And, as someone else suggested, there probably won't be any roots under the street (depending on where the trees are etc).

There is the issue regarding digging as to where the "offending" trees and/or bushes are located. If they are over the sewer line, it may be hard to dig in that area due to the roots.

Reply to
TomR

[snip]

Followup - A Thrilling Saga

Well, the work is almost done, but there were delays here and there as new evidence came to light. Here's a brief list of what happened and was done.

  1. There was a blockage in the sewer line, and "stuff" backflowed into the shower when the toilet was flushed and plumged.

  1. Plumber called - Plumber 1

  2. Plumber 1 found a cleanout in the front yard, and water came pouring out when the plug was removed. Deduced that the plug was downstream of that, and he tried to snake it, with no success. He said his snake head was catching on joints in the pipe. No charge for this.

  1. Plumber 2 - He also couldn't snake the line, but was able to use a jetter (high pressure water) to clear the blockage. He inspected the line with a camera and showed the homeowner many areas where there were roots coming into the pipe. He suggested opening up the line at the curb and checkin there as well.

4.1 Opened a 4 by 4 by 6' hole and found clay pipe (ABS at the house) and broke it open and found an additional clog or two. He had a proposal, in three, parts 1) Replace the Orangeburg pipe in the ground from the street to the house, 2) line the pipe from the curb to the main, and then replace the cast iron drains in the crawlspace under the house. All for $15K to $17K. 4.2 Homeowner took some time to look over the proposal and talk to others. Had decided to only replace the Orangeburg pipe between the house and street. 4.3 Plumber 3 gave a quote of $2000, if someone dug the hole at the cleanout at the house. (The homeowner would still have to pay Plumber 2 the $3800 for the work they did, hole and curb, camera work, &c). 4.3.1 I dug the hole 4 by 4 by ~3 to show the drain from the house, the cleanout tee and the drain away from the house. It turns out that all of this pipe is ABS, no Orangeburg to be seen, to where it joins the clay pipe from the curb to the street. So, Plumber 2 was mistaken when he said there was Orangeburg pipe there.

There never was any Orangeburg pipe there. The original line was clay, and this was bypassed some while back by a homeowner who installed the ABS from just outside the house to the curb.

I think lying might be close to what he was doing since he was a very high pressure salesman, bobbing and weaving when asked questions, with every question answered with, "but you'll have new pipe" and you should do it.

  1. Plumber 3 was a little disappointed to learn that he wouldn't have to do the work but was helpful anyway, and ran a camera where Plumber 2 did, and didn't see any roots in the lines where Plumber 2 said there were some (In the ABS you wouldn't think to see any)

  1. Plumber 2 now has to repair the clay pipe broken to allow access to the street pipe (He saw lots of roots there and kept insisting that it needed to have a liner put in),add a cleanout for future work, and backfill the hole. The homeowner has yet to talk to him to discuss this change in plans, so that should be interesting as well.

It cost more than she hoped, but less than it could have been if she had listened to the Plumber 2.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions - it was a learning opportunity since I haven't worked with drain lines for a while.

The cameras are cool.

Reply to
Charles Bishop

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