On India's power outage

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Thanks!
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Best regards
Han
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On Aug 16, 7:42 am, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

If you figure that most of the ACs are cycling randomly on their own, then I don't see how the power company cycling them is going to do anything to reduce the load, unless they cycle them off enough that they can't run as much as they would under thermostat only control. In that case they do reduce the load and the temp in the building rises. THAT is how I think it works. The rise is small enough that most people don't notice it. But we had one report here of someone that did have a problem with an upstairs becoming too hot. And that seems possible and logical to me.

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On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:53:11 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

That's sorta where I'm going with this. If the cycle time is shorter than the normal off-time of the AC, there is no savings. If it's longer, the temperature rises above the set point. On the hottest days, when one would expect the cycling would become necessary, this time gets shorter. IOW, I don't see this working, at least as advertised.

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On 08/15/2012 07:23 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Now you don't have every compressor trying to turn on at the same time, and can count on a certain percentage of them not even running. Ten minutes later that compressor comes back on and operates normally, and the next block gets shut down for ten minutes, and so on and so forth.
This assumes that your house is insulated enough to withstand the 10 minutes without the A/C going, and that your unit is properly sized. One would have to assume they take these factors into consideration in order for a person to qualify for the program, as it wouldn't make sense to extend the offer to a tin shack with an undersized unit.
Jon
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 07:48:13 -0700, Jon Danniken

But if the temperature doesn't rise (above the set point) in that time, you haven't gained a thing! All you've done is move the problem ten minutes.
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On 8/16/2012 9:06 AM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

that's the point. hopefully if you keep moving that problem 10 minutes into the future, at some point, some heavy load is going to switch off (factory, etc), and they won't have to buy spot electricity, which is even higher than normal in cost.
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wrote:

You can only move it ten minutes. You can't move it further because that AC is now on. You've saved nothing. In 48 cycles (an 8-hour day), you've pushed 10 minutes worth of electricity for 1/48th of the ACs, after the (first shift) load drops off. Whoopie!
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On 8/16/2012 9:56 AM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

if you need XMW of power right now, and you only have (X-5%)MW available, you have to buy more. if you turn off 5%, you don't have to buy that 5% on the spot market.
the next 10 minutes, you still have X-5% available, and if your load is not X-5 then, you still don't have to buy more. you turn on that 5% load that you had turned off, and turn off a different 5%. if your load has gone up, you turn off more than 5% to keep your load under what you can generate. you keep doing this until your load matches your generation, and then you have enough in your own generating facilities to not buy spot electricity.
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I don't know how your AC works, but all the ones I've had cycle on and off randomly. Therefore the cooling load is what it is. You can't reduce it by shifting the load out 10 mins. You have to DECREASE that load for real, by not letting the AC run as much as it would if it had power available constantly. And that translates into the temp in the building going up.
Let's say it's a very hot day. From 1PM to 5PM the power company sees it needs to reduce demand because either the system could go down or they would have to buy more very expensive power. All the ACs out there are either running constantly or cycling on and off. If they are running constantly, then obviously turning them off for 10 mins every so often is going to reduce the load, but it will also reduce the cooling.
If they are cycling on and off, then with all of them together, it's already randomized. Nothing the power company can do is going to reduce the load without it also causing less cooling going into the buildings.
Just look at it from an energy balance point. If the power company can reduce it's power output from 1PM to 5PM by 5% by screwing with shifting in 10 min periods, how could all the buildings be as cool as they would be with no intervention? How did we supply the same BTUs to all those customers buildings with 5% less power? Why not just do this miracle 24/7 and save everyone a lot of money?

Sure, you can do that. But you can't do it without less cooling at the buildings with those AC's being turned off by the power company.
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wrote:

But it's nowhere near 5% of your load because your main load is industrial (or it won't go offline after hours and you're screwed even worse). The entire load is *not* AC.

Absolutely wrong. See above.
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On Aug 15, 10:23 pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

That's what I'd like to know too. The only way this reduces the load the utility sees is if they actually reduce the cooling going into the home or business, by repeatedly cycling them so that they run less than if they were not being cycled. But they typically claim that it has no effect, which I believe is not true.
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HeyBub wrote:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22140-power-struggle-how-to-keep-indias-lights-on.html
It's been reported that 360 million Indians were without power. And that was in just one block.
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