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Old wire thicker than new wire? (2023 Update)

required it's replacement before getting an occupancy permit.

Reply to
BobK207
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required it's replacement before getting an occupancy permit.

Can you cite where the NEC says this? I'm pretty new to this, so I might be missing something, but I can find nothing.

A quick web serch leads me to believe that this is common enough practice that it hardly warrants mention. The closest question that comes up is whether it's OK to connect stranded wire directly to the screw terminals on outlets. The nearly unanimous answer is that it is code as long as the outlet is listed for it. All this discussion would seem pretty pointless if you're not allowed to run stranded wire at all...

Just for laughs I looked up the UL info on the outlets I've been using, and the only thing it bothers to specify is that you MUST use 14 awg solid for the slide in connectors on the back. For the screw termianls it just says "up to No. 12 copper or copper clad wire"...

The closest thing I can find in the NEC is that 8 awg and LARGER run through a conduit MUST be stranded. This does not imply the contrapositive...

Reply to
Larry Fishel

There's plenty of THHN 12 ga. stranded in my house. Some people complain that HD doesn't sell THHN solid anymore, This may have recently changed, but in NY City all the wiring in your house had to be armored cable (in walls) or in conduit (exposed). The stuff that's in conduit in my house is largely stranded. It's easier to pull through the conduit. It seems to be powering this computer very nicely. :)

I agree. I never use 14 for anything.

Greg

Reply to
Greg G

If I had to guess as to why older wire is thicker than new wire with the same gauge rating it might be more of a quality control issue than anything else. I bet the manufacturing process today is more accurate.

Reply to
scott21230

Today's process probably HAS to be more accurate. Heard a science thing last week on the radio. In this country, there is now more copper installed in houses than there is in the ground.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

I don't know for sure, but they might be mixing up some issues about the type of cable sheathing. If stranded THHN, etc was in conduit, I can't see how it wouldn't be approved.

Bill

Reply to
bill allemann

How about when trying to get it around screw terminals?

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

It's even more of a joke to use stranded with wire nuts. But, people do it.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

They do make bigger boxes; why don't you use them. You can put a lot of wires in a square box with a mud ring. There is a NEC requirement on the minimum size of box used based on what is in it.

bud--

Reply to
Bud--

I thought stranded couldn't be used under screws but I looked a while and didn't find a restriction. It is definitely can be a problem. I break the wire into 2 sets of strands and twist them tightly - works good except behind device grounding screws. Can always pigtail to solid. Poke in connections tightened by screw work good. I also thought stranded couldn't be used with back-stab connections but in 1991 it could.

bud--

Reply to
Bud--

If you look at commercial installations youy will seldom see anything but stranded THHN. It works just fine on screw terminals and wirenuts. They are both listed for stranded wire. Maybe homeowner/electricians are just not up to the task ;-)

Seroiusly, if you twist the wire tightly it will be fine. Some old timers say twist it backward from the way it is made. That does seem to work.

Reply to
gfretwell

Exactly how does it stress the "screws of the outlets"?

Can you actually cite a reference?

Reply to
Toller

The responses to your question include a lot of nonsense and extraneous discussion. The answer is that wire gauges are the same, unless you go back a long way. Like someone said, put a gauge on both wires. It could be that one of the wires is labeled wrong. The gauge will tell the story.

Reply to
George E. Cawthon

There are always crimp terminals, if done right.

Reply to
Doug Kanter

Yea, I havn't had problems with tightly twisted stranded on hot and neutral. I'm not real happy with the ground because the screws don't have adjacent barriers to prevent the wire from spreading/coming out like the hot and neutral do. Backwards is an interesting idea. You have to be more careful using wirenuts on stranded but made right they are reliable.

bud--

Reply to
Bud--

Yeah, and back in the early 70's, there was a wide spread claim that all of the U.S. copper mines would be mined out in 20 years.

Reply to
George E. Cawthon

What is it on this user group about wire nuts. I work in a plant and it is hard telling how many thousand connections are made with wire nuts. I would guess it has to be around 100,000 or more. Everything from some low level signal wires up to some 10 HP 480 volt 3 phase motors. Most all the wire is stranded. If they are put on correctly we have almost no problems with them. I don't usually use any tape on them except for some motors that seem to shake and viberate alot. The tape is not so much for the wire nuts themselves, but a few have rubbed through the insulation of the wire nuts so much of the tape is just around the thin covering on some of the wire nuts. The ones we use do not require any twisting. Just cut the insulation to the proper length for the wirenut and put the ends together. Then let the turning of the wire nut take care of things.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

I has a few stranded wires to connect to screws (on a standard receptacle) before Christmas. I used a short piece of solid wire on the screw and wirenutted to the stranded.

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

It would take a few tries to get it tight.

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

You can buy stranded wire in a cable form...I dont know the designation...I just call it "cable tray wire". Its used a lot in industrial plants where the vast majority of wiring is run in large cable trays...the cables are then dropped off the tray at the machine or appliance it is serving. Its probably expensive though and I dont know what the code says about running it in concealed places...but I know the sheath is probably just as durable as the outer sheath on romex.

Use crimp on ring or fork terminals for stranded.

I dont have any problem with 14 gauge wire....the problem is fat lazy americans and their power strips.....trying to run a 30 amp load on a

15 amp circuit....of course people are just ignorant...and electrical supplies are available to anyone old enough to pick it off the shelf.
Reply to
cornytheclown

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