Old Electrical Outlet

[redbrickhat]

I live in an old building (1920s) in New York City.

I recently opened up 2 electrical outlets that had been covered up for at least 30 years. Behind the outlets were 2 wires covered in cloth braid. At first I thought this type of cabling might be K&T, but a voltage test showed that the box was grounded, so I guess the wiring is metal conduit or armored cable.

What is the composition of the cloth braid of these old cables? The cloth braid looked and felt like cotton, but could it have been asbestos or another substance?

Thank you.

[Terry]

The only time I ran into insulation that you describe, it was very brittle. If you plain to continue using it, you should not disturb it anymore than you have to.

[Tom Biasi]

Its called loom wire. Most of it in the twenties used rubber also. It will be very brittle and next to impossible to work with. The general rule is "You touch it, you replace it."

Tom

[RBM]

Sometimes they ran a type of cloth covered cable inside of black pipe, and early steel cable like "Sprague" had a waxy cloth sheath over the conductors. The conductors themselves are probably covered with rubber and more cloth, and as the others have said, move them as little as you can

[hallerb]

you sure its grounded? some idiot might have connected box to neutral....... can you see a ground wire?

[RBM]

If it's connected to a steel conduit or cable it doesn't require a "ground wire" to be grounded

[Noway2]

Sounds that ye old Knob and Tube stuff. I used to own a house that was full of it. It looked like 18 gauge black cloth or paper wrapped wires. The wires were run through ceramic tubes where they went through a stud or joist and were suspended off of the wood surfaces with ceramic blocks that were nailed down.

[hallerb]

Yeah my hunch too, I asked about grounding since I helped a friend. Turned out she had K&T and it APPEARED grounded:)

The trouble was a former owner connected grounds and neutrals together. We found this opening a wall after a fire.On the outside a nice box with 3 prong outlet. Buried in wall K&T grounds and neutrals tied together.

The homes wiring was a patchwork quilt of bad stuff it was all replaced.

[John O'Flaherty]

Fray out some of the cloth. Hold a match or lighter under it. If it just burns to ash, it's probably cotton. If it burns and melts to a gooey mess, it's probably plastic. If it melts to a little glob, it's probably fiberglass. If it gets orange or white hot without melting, it's probably asbestos.

-- John

[Homer J Simpson]

No. Rubber and cloth. By now it will probably have deteriorated and won't take a small movement. You need to replace it with modern plastic wire if you have permission.

[Marilyn & Bob]

The OP said that he lives in New York City where BX (armored cable) was required in the 1920s (and still is today). Cloth covered wires with armored sheathing is standard in older building in NYC. This is not knob and tube. It is BX and it is grounded (although some may question whether the armor provides an adequate ground.

[redbrickhat]

So if the cabling is 2-wire BX and the cloth braid is not asbestos, would it be safe to cut some of the old braid off?

Thanks

[Steve Barker LT]

It's safe to cut it even if it is asbestos. Just don't snort it up your nose or eat it for 20 years in a row.

[RBM]

or just connect your fixtures to it, close it up and be done with it!!!

[redbrickhat]

I ask the question because I might have to remove a large portion of the braided cloth to add a new receptacle.

So: did the old-style BX cables for residential apartments generally use cotton braided cloth around their wires?

Was asbestos braided cloth used mainly for high-temperature applications?

Thanks.

[RBM]

I think the point is that asbestos is not cyanide, You're not going to die from occasional incidental contact

[Steve Barker LT]

The best thing to do is just do what you have to do. And quit worrying about the freakin asbestos. Like I said, you'd have to breathe the dust for

20 years before you MIGHT display symptoms 20 years after that.

[redbrickhat]

I ask the question because I might have to cut a large amount of the cloth braid to add a new receptacle.

So: did the old-style BX cables for residential homes generally use cotton braided cloth around the wires?

Was asbestos braided cloth used only for high temperature applications?

Thanks.

[Steve Barker LT]

I can't speak for the BX, but the old cloth romex I'm pulling out of my house appears to have a wrap of asbestos in it. After burning it (to recycle the copper) in a very hot fire, there is what appears to be a white ribbon spiraled around the copper. I can only assume it's asbestos put there for pulling strength.

[Homer J Simpson]

Yes, mainly in electric ranges and the like.