Oil spill

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yeah bankruptcy out of business is really what a careless company like BP deserves with its historical record of lax safety leading to disasters. like the texas oil refinery explosion and the alaska pipeline spill
seeing the shareholders losing everything and the copmpany ceasing to exist will hopefully some managers in prison.
it will be a stern message to other big companies who cost cutting profit first can lead to national and possibly world disasters..............
shareholders will suddenly ask hows safety and accept a smaller return for safe operations.......
selling off the BP assets should pay all claims. Preferably breaking up the assets to help competition
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wrote:

So, I'm sure you'd like for there to be one fewer company in the market. You were in favor of the Exxon/Mobil marriage, too, I assume.

What charge?

Loss of profits isn't enough penalty, for you. You require that the victims to suffer too. Got it.

They will be "accepting" a smaller return now.

You really are clueless.
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wrote:
<stuff snipped>

...
surviving and using it's

the stockholders and

Translate the BP disaster, the result of say as few as 20 managers behaving *very* badly to the WTC disaster with a similar number of men behaving *VERY, VERY* badly. It's why the Chinese say "when you set out on a journey of revenge, first dig two graves."*
WTC was not Pearl Harbor no matter what spin meisters tried to make it into. It was caused by us getting far too careless with very dangerous technology (jetliner "missiles") and allowing something very bad to happen. It was instantly forgotten that these a&&wipe terrorists had no weapons of their own. They used our own powerful technology and their own lives against us.
The "war" should have been on our own carelessness that allowed them such easy access to tremendous power. El Al Airlines locked cabin doors over 20 years ago. The Israelis are more desperate, so they're smarter and obviously far more vigilant. They would NOT have suffered a 9/11 attack because they took the simplest of precautions. They locked the doors. That's the truth no one wants to face up to.
Disaster in so many areas is simply the result of the holes in the Swiss cheese lining up. Normally, a series of "filters" catches bad actors, be they slime ball terrorists, meteorological forces, bad designs or just plain bad luck. At BP, it was the safety precautions. At WTC, it was the safety precautions, too.
Take your house: If the grounds not treated, if the CATV feed holes aren't caulked, if there's untreated wood in contact with the grounds, you could lose your house to termites. Termites and terrorists have the same goal, ironically - to sneak in unnoticed and do you harm. What are the choices? Nuke every terrorist/termite on earth? Not really possible. There are trillions of termites and God knows how many terrorists. They are both bugs to be guarded against, not warred upon. Think of all the safety plans, devices and related jobs one trillion dollars could have bought us.
Trader, It's obvious you have the intelligence to figure out what's best for the country, the world AND BP's shareholders even though it's clearly not the popular thing to do. If only Bush had had your perspicacity. You had me worried for a while, but there's hope for you yet. (-:
-- Bobby G.
*On occasion, I have been asked what that means. One for your enemy, one for yourself for when you get killed seeking revenge.
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One side of it was. Now, Grandma gets strip searched if she is the wrong random number. Tom Clancy often notes that about the only thing the terrorists accomplished is to inconvenience airline passengers. The other side of this is that Americans won't let their honchoes get away without doing "something". Whether or not there is anything they can actually do is pretty much decide the point. You are seeing this in the Gulf with Obama. He isn't able to take this really huge cork down to the site to stop the oil, but he is still being criticized for standing by, not making things worse by "doing something", and letting those who might know what is going on do their thing.

Somebody once said in this context that most disasters that get out of hand are due to a failure of imagination. Nobody imagined that there would ever be a hijacking that would be for any reason other than transportation to somewhere (There were locks on the cabin doors, but the policies in place at the time were--probably correctly with the experience up to that time--to cooperate with the hijackers to keep everyone safe. That policy actually helped the hijackers.). Nobody imagined what would happen if there was no place to move the people in the Superdome after the initial storm passed. Nobody imagined that ALL of the safeguards would be ignored or defeated on the oil well.

But that isn't "doing something" so the American Public would not have stood for it.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
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there was a earler highjacking where the terrorists were stopped before flying a airliner into the eifel tower.
theres a entire episode of air emergency about this near flying bomb.
authorities just ignored it:(
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Really?
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 18:12:03 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

"The British government had lost money operating Concorde every year, and moves were afoot to cancel the service entirely."
Personally, I think they hate things with sharp points. Kinda like knives and sticks.
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harry wrote:

There are 33 rigs facing immediate shutdowns. This involves about 45,000 laborers directly (about 1,400 per rig). Then there are those jobs directly related to the rigs in supplying food, supplies, and transportation. Each of these jobs has a domino effect and best estimates are that in excess of 100,000 people will be affected.
Heck, even one strip club has applied for compensation due to a severe drop-off in business.
No, this whole enchilada will go down as Obama's Bay of Rigs.
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wrote:

Some boat Captains drive as far as from Nawth Florida. They can't all live locally. They will be hurt, financially. I bet some Captains come from Texas.

A crying damn shame :-/

Now that puts it in perspective.
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the strip club should be compensated if their business is off, i am not a strip club proponent, but they are a legit business thats been harmed by the oil spill
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<stuff snipped>

Agreed. When it's obvious that all the plans for disaster are horribly flawed, it's pretty standard to stop everything and do a complete process inspection since it's clear it's never been done correctly before.
-- Bobby G.
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But unlike those other two, it is already fairly well established that the process flaws were largely in the areas where BP actually deviated from industry norms, if not regulations. Don't see a real need to close down the industry, since all that needs to be done is not cut corners. Doubtful that will happen, at least for a couple years, until the memory of what happened to BP fades.
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
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wrote:
<stuff snipped>

<If you follow the news, polls show those in the affected area are in favor of continuing offshore drilling. In fact, the Gov of Louisiana has taken on Obama over the issue.>
Polls. I can poll 1000 crackheads and they'll say "crack is good for you." S.O. F$cking what?
The Gulf is a resource shared by not just the nation, but the world. I couldn't care less what a bucnh of Alabamans that actually own telephones have to say about something happening outside their jurisdictional limit. That's FEDERAL oil that belongs to everyone leaking into an ecosystem important to far more than just Alabama.

<That's comparing apples to oranges.>
Ironically, in one of the most perfect proofs of Flanigan's law, you're the one comparing wildly different things.
<We have a few shuttles. We have 30,000 or so offshore oil wells that have been drilled without blowouts.>
We only have one Gulf of Mexico is the proper analogy, and we know now that the device that we've been relying on to avoid massive spills, the blow-out preventer, may be wholly inadequate to do the job. How much oil can leak into the Gulf before it spreads up the coast? We don't want to find out by experience by having another well fail dramatically, hence the need to shut down and inspect, if only to see which rigs CAN shut down.
< In the case of delaying the shuttle re-launch, there was little downside. You weren't putting tens of thousands of people out of work and potentially making things LESS safe.>
Easy. Mandate the companies pay their salaries anyway if the rigs fail to pass inspection, proving that the shutdown was the right thing to do. Obama's got the will of an angry, angry populace he can direct against the oil companies. Joe Barton confirmed that for us. (0: He's already allegedly extorted $20B from BP. I am sure he can squeeze some millions more out of the other rig operators.
< That's right, less safe. The industry experts that Obama consulted before issuing his decree told him that they thought it was a mistake to do the ban.>
Ah, yes, the same experts that approved the disaster plans that were so laughable they included plans for the Gulf's walruses. In the case where a disaster of epic proportions is occurring and where it's clear the disaster plans approved by Federal and industry experts were bogus, there's almost no choice but to shut down and inspect.
<With the shuttle, I don't recall any experts recommended immediate re-launch.>
When I worked for one of the nation's largest product liability law firms, we had rolodexes full of the names of highly credentialed, well-spoken experts who, for a fee, could make a presentation so persuasive that you would believe down was up and in was out. That's my way of saying experts should be taken with a grain of salt, especially when their advice flies in the face of experience and common sense.

<Only IF a specific safety issue appears to be the involved. And then, that specific aircraft type is usually only grounded long enough for inspection. Cases in point, there have now been several fatal crashes in the last year or two with total loss involving A330s. Yet no safety agency has grounded them. I'd like to see a case where a fleet of planes was grounded for 6 months after a crash.>
I'd like to see a plane crash that can create perhaps $50 billion in damages and destroy and entire region's eco-system. You're up to your neck in apples, oranges and oil rigs. Your analogies are plagued with scaling errors. This is pretty straightforward risk evaluation. How much damage could another blowout cause?
-- Bobby G.
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