Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less)

I'm sure many of you travel a lot for your home repairs, and that means paying through the nose for gas. Former speaker Newt Gingrich has a petition going on called "Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less." His goal is 3 million votes and he has 1.2 million so far. Don't know about you guys, but I think it's beyond ridiculous that we are the ONLY nation that doesn't pursue it's resources, while other countries are independent, or are becoming so.

Here's the link:

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We have been raped by Saudi Arabia & OPEC countries for long enough, yet Congress continues to chase it's tail and make excuses. We have enough resources that surpass the entire Middle East, but red tape gets in the way all the time. Even Clinton refused to drill in

1995....which would have helped us now if he didn't say no.

Enough babbling, if you feel the same way I do, please sign the petition and pass the word quickly!

-Joel

Reply to
Joelberg
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Too bad it won't make a nickle's difference.

Reply to
Bob F

On 6/29/2008 4:19 PM Bob F spake thus:

Not only that, but I'm not about to trade environmental degradation for a short-term "surge" in oil supply.

The idea is to get *off* oil, not continue to feed our addiction.

Count me out.

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:26:19 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote Re Re: Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less):

Well said.

Reply to
Caesar Romano

No, the objective is to provide sufficient energy to run this country. It might be nice if we could run our homes and schools and factories with sunbeams or wind in the willows, but we can't. Not now, not in five years, not ever. It is a law of physics and economics that not enough energy falls on the surface of the earth to meet our current needs.

The earth gets about 700 watts/sq meter of sunlight energy at the equator at noon with no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, assuming 50% conversion capability, and ignoring clouds, means that it would take a solar collector the size of the Los Angeles basin (~1200 sq miles) to provide sufficient power for just California (55 Gigawatts).

There aren't 1200 square miles of solar collectors on the planet! Consider the construction and maintenance cost. And that's just for California!

Plus, everybody in Los Angeles would be in the dark, which, when you think on it, is not such a bad idea...

Nothing comes close to the efficiency of oil (and gas) in providing therms, BTUs, kwhs, or any other measure of stored energy. We know how to get it, transport it, convert it, and distribute the result. The infrastructure is there, the ability is there, the oil is even there. All that is lacking is political will.

We no more have an "addiction" to oil than we have an "addiction" to food. It is necessary for our well being and our way of life.

Reply to
HeyBub

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With all the hew and cry about the price of oil, I rarely hear the word "conserve". We cut way back on energy usage in the early '80's. We've been talking about the price of oil for forty years, knowing this day was coming. Americans are living like pigs - consuming like there is no tomorrow. $4 is horrible price to pay for gasoline, but folks buy a $2 bottle of water and $4 cup of coffee, fill the planet with disposables (much from oil) and think we can drill our way out of the situation. We think in the moment, with absolutely no thought about 50 years from now or what will be available to our grand- children.

With sufficient support, solar power can certainly be made economical and not be a burden on land use. Heck, if we had covered parking for some of the miles and miles of asphalt we could kill two birds with one stone - retain less heat on the ground, lessen damage to autos, and use the structure to capture solar energy.

We should have been spending the past forty years building railroads and other ground transport systems that are far more efficient than semi's and 747's.

Folks are in a weaker condition here because of debt, too, which has weakened our economy horribly. Can't get rid of home equity fast enough - gotta have that big screen TV, give junior a new car so's he can get fat, get drunk and go die some Sat. nite because "that's what every- body is doing". The price of gasoline is the kick in the ass we've needed for a long time. It's gonna hurt.

Reply to
Norminn

On 6/29/2008 6:27 PM HeyBub spake thus:

Well, I said we need to get off oil; I said nothing about gas, which is another critter altogether.

For instance, I'm surprised I've heard nothing about what used to be called "Gobar gas" back in the 1970s. This is methane, recovered in India from cowshit. There are lots of things that produce methane which, as you said, is an excellent source of BTUs, kwhs, etc. Like all landfills. So we already know how to replace a good chunk of our oil with something homegrown (remember that we also know how to run infernal-combustion vehicles on methane).

Article here:

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We *do* have an addiction to oil, because we have an addiction to energy. Do we really "need" all the energy we use/waste? As you yourself said, maybe it's not such a bad thing if LA goes dark ...

Reply to
David Nebenzahl

Hmmm, interesting seem to have heard that same argument 10-15 years ago. Can't we just clam any oil found offshore is ours and can only be sold in this country? Ohh I forgot we dont have any refineries. Lets just do what we've been doing for the last 30 years, sit on our ass and hope the problem goes away.

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sounds good but I'd start by getting the politicians out of Washington to.

Reply to
evodawg

Guess I'll stick a flag pole on my truck and hang a sail. And how long do you think it will take to get off oil? A week, couple of months, 10 years,

50 years and what do we do until then sit on our ass like we have been for the last 30 years. Sounds like a real thought out plan to me.

Count me out on your plan

Reply to
evodawg

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:27:01 -0500, "HeyBub" wrote Re Re: Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less):

Check out nuclear power. It's been around for awhile.

Reply to
Caesar Romano

Of course it will eventually. I get a kick out the Dems who suggest that because it will take 15 years to get the oil to market it isn't worth doing. Of course they were saying the same thing 15 years ago. So short sightedness in the past (until recently to be fair a problem with both sides of the aisle) is a reason to continue shortsightedness into the future. Don't learn from mistakes.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Considering the time it takes to get a new well on line, it is not going to help much or help any time soon. In the ten or more years it will take, the landscape is likely to be far different.

So what to do. Well we are starting to do it. People are feeling the pinch and are starting to conserve. There are few people who can't cut their energy use both in the short term and long term.

Nothing new, the same things we use to do before cheap oil and two SUVs in every garage. Consolidate trips shopping or visiting and consider car pools. Take public transit where available. Turn down the heat or A/C Turn off those unneeded lights like you dad told you when you were a kid. Shorter showers. The list is long, but easy to do.

In the long term (ten years is a long term) get rid of those oversized cars, get a job close to home or a home close to work and shopping. Push for laws allowing more dense housing and jobs, shoppin and homes closer to each other.

Don't profit the oil companies and car industry, Conserving benefits you. Do it for yourself.

Reply to
jmeehan

This will never occur no matter what you do. Population reduction is the only REAL solution to the problem. It would also solve a lot of other problems. Governments, however are giant Ponzi schemes, and so the last thing they want to do is slow the birthrate and dry up their endless supply of taxpayers, which is THEIR energy source.

There are other ways to harness the power of the sun besides photo-voltaic. Solar collectors can be used to superheat oil, which in turn can make steam to turn turbines.

Reply to
salty

Well said. Shale oil is there and can be extracted now. Congress... get off your butt.

Reply to
Chuck

Not really. Oil is fungible. Domestic oil used only in the U.S. is oil that is not bought on the world market. World demand goes down and the price follows. Soon it will be cheaper to buy oil at the world price than buy domestic oil. It all works together.

"Speculation" is merely insurance. It is a fundamental rule of business that you always trade an existing variable price for a fixed one whenever possible. This allows planning and prevents catastrophic surprises. "Speculation" is nothing more that the market's decisions on future prices.

Some have been serious about alternative energy sources for many, many years. In spite of heroic and concentrated efforts, nothing has come CLOSE to oil in terms of cost and availability.

Lobbyists are the experts. Consider laws on campaign finance reform, done by the political experts themselves. Do you really want these idiots setting the tariffs on imported Yak Fat with no input from the World Yak Breeders Association?

Reply to
HeyBub

True. The agitation for drilling in ANWR started during the first years of the Clinton administration, some 15 years ago.

The resistance then - which continues 'til this day - contributed to the mess we're in today.

Some great worth once said: (paraphrasing) "It is not your duty to complete the goal; but it is not your right to delay beginning the task."

Reply to
HeyBub

But pure market decisions are not really at play here. The really low margin levels in the oil future pit act as a subsidy when compared with other investment vehicles (IIRC around 10% margin for oil as compared to around 1/2 for stocks). Also, with such a small %age of futures contracts actually being exercised (around 10%), the pricing may be more reflective of the market's decisions on future prices of the CONTRACTS than the underlying commodity.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

And the big pools off shore such as parts of the Gulf of Mexico have been off-limits even longer.

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Reply to
Kurt Ullman
[snip]

$3.93/gal yesterday in east Texas.

BTW, it was $2.99 earlier this year.

[snip]
Reply to
Mark Lloyd

Don't you know Politicians don't make mistakes! Mirtha won't apologize to the Marines at Hadetha. Bush won't admit he made a huge mistake outing Sadam. Kennedy and Kerry are a mistake,period. Obama is a Communist, McCain is a RINO and has no clue. God Help US!!!

Reply to
evodawg

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