Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less)

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I'm sure many of you travel a lot for your home repairs, and that means paying through the nose for gas. Former speaker Newt Gingrich has a petition going on called "Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less." His goal is 3 million votes and he has 1.2 million so far. Don't know about you guys, but I think it's beyond ridiculous that we are the ONLY nation that doesn't pursue it's resources, while other countries are independent, or are becoming so.
Here's the link:
http://www.americansolutions.com/actioncenter/petitions/?GuidTec6e43-75a8-445b-aa7b-346a1e096659
We have been raped by Saudi Arabia & OPEC countries for long enough, yet Congress continues to chase it's tail and make excuses. We have enough resources that surpass the entire Middle East, but red tape gets in the way all the time. Even Clinton refused to drill in 1995....which would have helped us now if he didn't say no.
Enough babbling, if you feel the same way I do, please sign the petition and pass the word quickly!
-Joel
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Too bad it won't make a nickle's difference.
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On 6/29/2008 4:19 PM Bob F spake thus:

>

Not only that, but I'm not about to trade environmental degradation for a short-term "surge" in oil supply.
The idea is to get *off* oil, not continue to feed our addiction.
Count me out.
--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:26:19 -0700, David Nebenzahl
you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less):

Well said.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

No, the objective is to provide sufficient energy to run this country. It might be nice if we could run our homes and schools and factories with sunbeams or wind in the willows, but we can't. Not now, not in five years, not ever. It is a law of physics and economics that not enough energy falls on the surface of the earth to meet our current needs.
The earth gets about 700 watts/sq meter of sunlight energy at the equator at noon with no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, assuming 50% conversion capability, and ignoring clouds, means that it would take a solar collector the size of the Los Angeles basin (~1200 sq miles) to provide sufficient power for just California (55 Gigawatts).
There aren't 1200 square miles of solar collectors on the planet! Consider the construction and maintenance cost. And that's just for California!
Plus, everybody in Los Angeles would be in the dark, which, when you think on it, is not such a bad idea...
Nothing comes close to the efficiency of oil (and gas) in providing therms, BTUs, kwhs, or any other measure of stored energy. We know how to get it, transport it, convert it, and distribute the result. The infrastructure is there, the ability is there, the oil is even there. All that is lacking is political will.
We no more have an "addiction" to oil than we have an "addiction" to food. It is necessary for our well being and our way of life.
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clipped

With all the hew and cry about the price of oil, I rarely hear the word "conserve". We cut way back on energy usage in the early '80's. We've been talking about the price of oil for forty years, knowing this day was coming. Americans are living like pigs - consuming like there is no tomorrow. $4 is horrible price to pay for gasoline, but folks buy a $2 bottle of water and $4 cup of coffee, fill the planet with disposables (much from oil) and think we can drill our way out of the situation. We think in the moment, with absolutely no thought about 50 years from now or what will be available to our grand- children.
With sufficient support, solar power can certainly be made economical and not be a burden on land use. Heck, if we had covered parking for some of the miles and miles of asphalt we could kill two birds with one stone - retain less heat on the ground, lessen damage to autos, and use the structure to capture solar energy.
We should have been spending the past forty years building railroads and other ground transport systems that are far more efficient than semi's and 747's.
Folks are in a weaker condition here because of debt, too, which has weakened our economy horribly. Can't get rid of home equity fast enough - gotta have that big screen TV, give junior a new car so's he can get fat, get drunk and go die some Sat. nite because "that's what every- body is doing". The price of gasoline is the kick in the ass we've needed for a long time. It's gonna hurt.
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On 6/29/2008 6:27 PM HeyBub spake thus:

Well, I said we need to get off oil; I said nothing about gas, which is another critter altogether.
For instance, I'm surprised I've heard nothing about what used to be called "Gobar gas" back in the 1970s. This is methane, recovered in India from cowshit. There are lots of things that produce methane which, as you said, is an excellent source of BTUs, kwhs, etc. Like all landfills. So we already know how to replace a good chunk of our oil with something homegrown (remember that we also know how to run infernal-combustion vehicles on methane).
Article here: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1971-11-01/Gobar-Gas.aspx

We *do* have an addiction to oil, because we have an addiction to energy. Do we really "need" all the energy we use/waste? As you yourself said, maybe it's not such a bad thing if LA goes dark ...
--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
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wrote Re Re: Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less):

Check out nuclear power. It's been around for awhile.
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This will never occur no matter what you do. Population reduction is the only REAL solution to the problem. It would also solve a lot of other problems. Governments, however are giant Ponzi schemes, and so the last thing they want to do is slow the birthrate and dry up their endless supply of taxpayers, which is THEIR energy source.

There are other ways to harness the power of the sun besides photo-voltaic. Solar collectors can be used to superheat oil, which in turn can make steam to turn turbines.
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HeyBub wrote:

Well said. Shale oil is there and can be extracted now. Congress... get off your butt.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Guess I'll stick a flag pole on my truck and hang a sail. And how long do you think it will take to get off oil? A week, couple of months, 10 years, 50 years and what do we do until then sit on our ass like we have been for the last 30 years. Sounds like a real thought out plan to me.

Count me out on your plan

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can\'t make them THINK"
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DanG wrote:

Hmmm, interesting seem to have heard that same argument 10-15 years ago. Can't we just clam any oil found offshore is ours and can only be sold in this country? Ohh I forgot we dont have any refineries. Lets just do what we've been doing for the last 30 years, sit on our ass and hope the problem goes away.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db20080513_272469.htm
sounds good but I'd start by getting the politicians out of Washington to.
--
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but you can\'t make them THINK"
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evodawg wrote:

Not really. Oil is fungible. Domestic oil used only in the U.S. is oil that is not bought on the world market. World demand goes down and the price follows. Soon it will be cheaper to buy oil at the world price than buy domestic oil. It all works together.

"Speculation" is merely insurance. It is a fundamental rule of business that you always trade an existing variable price for a fixed one whenever possible. This allows planning and prevents catastrophic surprises. "Speculation" is nothing more that the market's decisions on future prices.
Some have been serious about alternative energy sources for many, many years. In spite of heroic and concentrated efforts, nothing has come CLOSE to oil in terms of cost and availability.
Lobbyists are the experts. Consider laws on campaign finance reform, done by the political experts themselves. Do you really want these idiots setting the tariffs on imported Yak Fat with no input from the World Yak Breeders Association?
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But pure market decisions are not really at play here. The really low margin levels in the oil future pit act as a subsidy when compared with other investment vehicles (IIRC around 10% margin for oil as compared to around 1/2 for stocks). Also, with such a small %age of futures contracts actually being exercised (around 10%), the pricing may be more reflective of the market's decisions on future prices of the CONTRACTS than the underlying commodity.
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Of course it will eventually. I get a kick out the Dems who suggest that because it will take 15 years to get the oil to market it isn't worth doing. Of course they were saying the same thing 15 years ago. So short sightedness in the past (until recently to be fair a problem with both sides of the aisle) is a reason to continue shortsightedness into the future. Don't learn from mistakes.
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Don't you know Politicians don't make mistakes! Mirtha won't apologize to the Marines at Hadetha. Bush won't admit he made a huge mistake outing Sadam. Kennedy and Kerry are a mistake,period. Obama is a Communist, McCain is a RINO and has no clue. God Help US!!!
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wrote:
[snip]

$3.93/gal yesterday in east Texas.
BTW, it was $2.99 earlier this year.
[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
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Don't you realize our elected representatives are bought and paid for oil interests and some foreign governments?
I have read these interests will fork out around $170 million to buy our government! So who are they going to listen to?
The SOLUTION is to form a "We the People" special interest and buy them off to do what we want and need. OR everybody buy stock in the big U.S. TV networks so "We the People" control what is said on TV (the truth perhaps).
Money talks....
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Yep that certainly explains why the Congress doesn't let them drill wherever they want to and why they put in all those environmental regulations. Makes perfect sense to me
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wrote:

way to go,Kurt! B-)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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