NYC subway repair

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Edited for length, read full article on web. New York Subway System Faces Weeks to Recover From Storm October 31, 2012

Seven subway tunnels under New York's East River flooded, MTA officials said. Pumping them out could take days, and a 2011 state study said it could take three weeks after hurricane- driven flooding to get back to 90 percent of normal operations. That study forecast damages of $50 billion to $55 billion to transportation infrastructure including the subways.

A subway system has an electrical system that runs equipment, pumps, lights and communications, one that runs switches and signals and a third that powers the electrified third rail for train propulsion, Munfah said. All can be ruined by salt.

Thousands of connections in signal systems will need to be cleaned and tested before trains can run again, said Mortimer Downey, a former MTA executive director and current board member of the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority.

"It's an enormous amount of wiring and an enormous amount of connections that go to what's called relay rooms," Downey said. "They've got to turn the system on, and if it seems to be working I think they've got to go to every component and check it and get rid of all the salt. What you don't want is a short circuit that causes the system to fail."

Spare Parts Finding enough replacement parts will be another challenge that could delay repairs, said Kathy Waters, vice president for member services at the American Public Transportation Association. "The New York system, although there are some components that have been upgraded over the years, has a lot of antique components where the vendor has been out of business for 50 years," Waters said in an interview.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon
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We take so much for granted in our daily lives. I can see that problems can haunt the system for years as residual corrosion comes back.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Salt is corrosive, and absorbs moisture but it also is conductive. The corrosion will eat into electrical contacts, wiring and bearings compounded by the moisture that it absorbs. Moist salt will short circuit electrical systems. Just about everything will have to be pressure washed with distilled water to remove as much salt as possible, other things will have to be replaced before power can be turned on.

Reply to
EXT

I doubt they need distilled water. NYC city water is some of the best in the country. The only question is how long it will take to flush the aqueducts from upstate.

Reply to
gfretwell

wrote

The GOVERNMENT workers of NYC appear to be doing a very good job, having restored quite a bit of subway service already after just 3 days. That's remarkable.

Reply to
David Kaye

wrote

The GOVERNMENT workers of NYC appear to be doing a very good job, having restored quite a bit of subway service already after just 3 days. That's remarkable.

Reply to
David Kaye

I guess while people are shipping bottled water to NYC, you and I can send cans of WD-40 to the Subway Authority?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

It also shows the result of our "walmart culture" which is doing everything cheap. For example they show very long lines in NJ at gas stations because most stations there don't have generators and apparently most fuel terminals there don't either.

The area adjacent to us is still without power. The folks I know who own gas stations there are able to accommodate everyone because they have backup generators at each of their properties. They also kept all prices the same.

And as has been mentioned not all cell carriers are equal. All except one went dark in the nearby area not long after electricity went off. That would be expected because the one that is up has a "non walmart culture" philosophy.

Reply to
George

The lack of generators is a side effect of "price gouging" laws. The gas stations are not allowed to charge more in crisis, so there is little incentive to spend the money on generator. Your neighbors are exceptional, in that regard. They are probably selling gasoline as fast as the pumps can deliver.

Dr. Walter Williams has written on this concept. I should try to find the article.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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It also shows the result of our "walmart culture" which is doing everything cheap. For example they show very long lines in NJ at gas stations because most stations there don't have generators and apparently most fuel terminals there don't either.

The area adjacent to us is still without power. The folks I know who own gas stations there are able to accommodate everyone because they have backup generators at each of their properties. They also kept all prices the same.

And as has been mentioned not all cell carriers are equal. All except one went dark in the nearby area not long after electricity went off. That would be expected because the one that is up has a "non walmart culture" philosophy.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

so which cell carrier was still operating?

Reply to
bob haller

re: "The gas stations are not allowed to charge more in crisis, so there is little incentive to spend the money on generator."

But they are allowed to sell what gas they have. For the "little incentive" theory to be true, it would have to be more expensive to own/operate a generator than what can be made by remaining open for business.

You would also have to factor in the "cost" of a dark gas station when the looters are out and about. Even if a costs a little more to stay open, it's cheaper than having your business trashed by looters.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

I think a decent defense to a price gouging charge would be documenting the increased cost of delivering the fuel. I do tend to agree that these laws are a dis incentive to getting supplies into disaster areas. Why would a business go out of their way to lose money selling products at below cost? Maybe if you are a big corporation like Walmart where you can spread that cost over a wide, unaffected area it is a good business decision but if you are a mom and pop, you are better off just staying closed.

Reply to
gfretwell

Possibly because of the value of public relations. If you "lose" a few dollars on an individual sale in a time of crisis, but gain a loyal lifelong customer because of it, you come out ahead by a huge margin.

Reply to
Smitty Two

I heard an NYC uses salt on their roads, therefore the underground electrical infrastructure is constantly be drenched with water laden with salt as well as with other contaminants. He did say that the current flood waters will contain more of the "other contaminates" but for the most part, the underground electrical infrastructure is pretty robust.

He said it would have been much worse if all of the infrastructure was above ground.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

But the storm was Monday and the lines started Tuesday and Wednesday. Knowing a storm was coming and warnings said to fill up, how many did? If you had less than a half tank during the storm, I don't feel to bad for you now. Most cars have a range of 350 miles or so and can go a week or more. You should have topped off last weekend.

Poor planning on your part does not make an emergency on my part.

I've never been able to justify a generator, but you won't see my house dark for weeks with no power. I have LED lights and plenty of batteries. And enough gas in the car for a week.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

While that is true, you may never see the customer again. They were showing cars in a line at a CT station and they were coming from NY and NJ to get gas. Once back in operation locally, they will not be a repeat customer.

OTOH, it is good to help others in need when you can even if you don't make money.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

I don't think there is enough distilled water, either.

I agree but I assumed that the part running now is part that was never wet, and that the trains go from the World Trade Center or whereever it is dry, north to the Bronx. Same on the east side. And that trains run within amd betweem Brooklyn and Queens, but none go under the East or Hudson riviers.

FWIW, I heard on the radio that (some of) the salt they use on the streets for ice and snow gets washed into the subways too, and must not do much damage. Of course this is 100 or 1000 times saltier and reached to the ceiling.

Reply to
micky

best in the country.... LOL ( drink it and you'll see why I say this)

Reply to
Doug

Economics 101 will tell you that the "money losing" case is often superior to the "shut down" case. In the "shut down" case, many expenses continue: rent, insurance, (sometimes) wages, etc. By staying in production, even if losing money, the owner can often minimize the adverse impact of whatever is causing the downturn.

Reply to
HeyBub

True. But the expectation on the part of the masses was that everything would be back to almost normal within 24-36 hours.

In all the warnings leading up to the storm, for a week or more, did you EVER hear any reporter or journalist insist that you stock up with two weeks worth of food, fill your tank and any gas containers you had or could buy, or plan for ANY other long-range disruption?

Reply to
HeyBub

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