Nutty California judge awards 1.6M over 2x4s not being 2" by 4"

Page 3 of 5  
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Don Phillipson wrote:

Er, no:
"Perez said the problem arose when California inspectors found that Lowe's advertised dimensional building products under nominal descriptions when they didn't actually fit the standards set forth by the NIST." http://www.remodeling.hw.net/business/district-attorney-oks-nominal-lumber-descriptions_o
--K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:43:09 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

    He signed the sentence "Thanks Arnold".
    Wonder WTF he meant by that ?
    http://judgepedia.org/Paul_M._Haakenson     []'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9/16/2014 10:43 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
FUCK YOU CALIFORNICATORS!
HAVE YOU NO SHAME? NO SHAME AT ALL?
Jesus H. Christ on a crutch. WTF is the matter with you people?
Speaking to the minority idiots (not to give idiots a bad name) only!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

it was a civil action brought by the DA on behalf of the People of the State of California.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

-settlement_o?utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=jump&utm_medium=email&utm_ca mpaign=PSBU090514&day 14-09-05>

It's much worse than that, they've got the story all wrong. Clicking on a URL in the story above takes you here:
http://www.remodeling.hw.net/business/district-attorney-oks-nominal-lumber-descriptions_o
I suspect not a single person complaining actually drilled down to READ what this case was about. It was about Lowe's selling even smaller sized lumber than what NIST defines as a 2 by 4!!!!! (1.5 by 3") It WAS fraud, not justice gone wild and that is exactly why Lowe's settled. They were clearly in the wrong.
Quote: As long as you meet NIST standards, you can call a 2x4 by its name in California By: Tim Regan One of the district attorney's offices involved in the widely-criticized $1.6 million Lowe's 2x4 settlement said it's "not misleading" to call 2x4 a 2x4, provided you meet existing nominal standards set forth by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The NIST defines a 2x4 as measuring 1.5 inches by 3.5 inches.
"If it's a softwood product like 2x4 lumber and it actually meets the NIST standards, then they don't need to [include] the actual dimensions," said Marin County Deputy District Attorney Andy Perez in an interview with REMODELING. Meet that 1.5-inch by 3.5-inch standard, explained Perez, and you're free to call it a 2x4.
Perez said the problem arose when California inspectors found that Lowe's advertised dimensional building products under nominal descriptions when they didn't actually fit the standards set forth by the NIST. Some of those descriptions, stated the Marin County district attorney's office, were provided to Lowe's by the manufacturers or other suppliers of the lumber.
When can't you call it a 2x4? Perez explained that if a dimensional building product fails to meet the NIST nominal standards, or lacks a nominal dimension standard-as is the case with composite wood-you must include actual dimensions in the advertisement.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------
Jeez. Some people need to get more detail oriented and not jump to erroneous conclusions. THAT is what is wrong with America, IMHO - no more attention to detail or critical thinking and an utter willingness to believe anything, especially if it conforms to some sort of personal or political bias of theirs.
SH
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

I found and read the actual judgment and injunction, and posted comments similar to yours regarding the actual facts.
so, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. yes, a single person DID read the fine print. :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Or don't sell 2x4's that aren't.
http://www.buildingproduct.guru/ "A Superior Court in Marin County California ordered Lowe’s, a nation-wide retailer and distributor of building products, to pay a $1.6 million settlement over a lawsuit alleging the inaccurate description of structural dimensional building products. Lowe's promoted lumber as 2x4 even though the wood measured less than 1.5 x 3.5 inches, the dimensional criteria established by industry standards"
Guess that's okay with the kneejerkers here. Buying a 2x4 that ain't. I would be pissed if I bought something advertised as a 2x4 and it didn't measure up to the others.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I expect this will be appealed.
It's just that Lowes has to pay a legal team a bunch of money to appeal that stupid decision.
--
nestork


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 9/16/2014 9:10 PM, nestork wrote:

All the money Lowes has comes from customers like you and me. Lets reword that "The Lowes customers will pay for the legal team, as part of the price of the products the customers buy at the store."
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Lowes will not appeal. Read the decision - it makes perfect sense.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

My apologies. I just looked through all the posts that appeared on my server and didn't see your comment, just a barrage of bilge about California's fruit and nuts and more of the same. Welcome to the funeral for critical thinking. Could you repost it for me so I can apologize a second time cuz I just reread all the posts on Eternal September (where the eff did that name come from??) and still don't see it? <g>
What bothers me the most is that some people are so hard over that they don't even wonder why Lowe's would "roll over" if they were doing just what every retail lumber merchant in America is doing. Its bogus right out of the box. Sadly, it's the norm now. Its both sides doing it, too. Look at all the black people who think white cops shoot black kids for no reason other than they are black and believe, without evidence, he was surrendering with his hands up. Truth died right along with critical thinking.
Reminds me of the neighbor's kid (a comic book educated youngster) loudly insisting at a cookout this weekend that half of the Viking warriors were female. Immediately my BS detector went off just like it did here. That bogus rumor started from a tiny study that was based on the examination of 15 graves, and roughly half were women but there's no proof that they were warriors. Could be wives, could be slaves, could be captives, etc.
Just to get his goat and prove his knowledgebase was faulty I asked him if he could describe their helmets and he said "silver caps with horns." Another Hollywood myth. No horns on Viking helmets except in the comics and the movies. Where's that Brit guy Harry who always insisted Americans learned their history from the movies? Mayhaps the bugger had a point.
Oh, BTW, I am NOT wrong, wrong, wrong. <g> You weren't one of the ones complaining and my statement was "not a single person complaining actually drilled down." You are excluded from that set of complainers. Elementary, Watson.
SH
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Loews has a long habit of selling heavily over cut lumber. So I expect there is more to the story and the judgement.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

look up the origin of "Etermal September". It makes a lot of sense. You won't be disappointed.
My repost:
I'll be darned if I can copy the link properly, now that Google has gotten all smarty pants on us. But search for the actual injunction and judgment:
lowes-2x4-final-judgement.pdf.
It says nominal descriptions are ok. But I guess we are now faced with 2x4s on the shelves that are sub-nominal. Who knew?

You are correct, but then your statement was rather foolish "I suspect not a single person complaining actually drilled down to READ what this case was about." Suspect? You knew darned well!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:39:01 PM UTC-4, Pico Rico wrote:

The loons of a.h.r would rather rant than get their facts straight.
--K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:24:17 -0400, Stormin Mormon

I keep hearing about how bad big box stores are and that you should always go to a real lumber yard but I have had my share of crappy lumber there too. My wife ordered a bunch of lumber for a project at the club and of 50 2x6s, 16 of them had so much wane on the edges that they were unusable. There were a half dozen 2x10s that were too twisted to use. (out of 25). This was a "real" lumber yard, the biggest in Ft Myers Fla.
At least at HD/Lowes you can pick your own boards.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You would think a republican would stand up for the big corporation.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

In this case, the republican stood up for common sense. read the actual decision.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:17:52 -0400, "Sherlock.Homes"

I read several articles on this and I did not see what size this lumber actually was. They allude to the idea that it was not 3.5 x 1.5 but I see no actual measurements.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 10:53:04 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Exactly. I see some folks here crowing about something, implying that what the govt did was peachy keen, but so far all I see is the settlement agreement, which says nothing about the source of all this. For all they know, they could have found 10 boards that are under by 1/32, while 1000 are over by more. And at the same time, they are accusing the rest of us of jumping to conclusions? Good grief.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yeah, they are metric. I said that
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.