Nutty California judge awards 1.6M over 2x4s not being 2" by 4"

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com writes:

I see the idiots are at it, making this political.
I, for one, would not be upset if lumber was sold with the ACTUAL size mentioned somewhere.
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Dan Espen

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On 9/16/2014 3:48 PM, Dan Espen wrote:

It is, if you buy it immediately when cut.
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writes:

I can almost go along with the ruling. If the 2x4 had always been the same size I would not have a problem. Over the years the 2x4 seems to be srinking. About 20 years ago I bought some 2x4s and some nails that would not go through them when I nailed the 2 inch sides together. About 10 years ago I bought some more 2x4s and the old nails went though to the other side. That ment another trip back to the store to find some nails that were about 1/2 of an inch shorter.
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On 09/16/2014 4:03 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

...

You don't take a rule with you to the lumber yard???

...
They have standardized on 1/2" under nominal for dimension common framing lumber since sometime in the 70s or 80s--prior to that it was 5/8". The change was primarily made so that two 3/4" ply sheets would match up w/ the thickness of a tuba-X when ply became so ubiquitous for sheathing and as filler for headers, etc. At 3-1/2", two on edge and a 1/2" ply make a matched-thickness header--at the 5/8" it takes 5/8" or other machinations to make it match.
There's a voluntary standard for softwood lumber that sets minimum dimensions for the various sizes and a lot of other stuff as well...
<http://www.alsc.org/greenbook%20collection/PS20.pdf
It's mind-boggling to me that simply showing this document to a judge wouldn't have gotten an immediate dismissal--that it didn't indicates either incompetence on the defense by Lowes in not presenting it or simply a preconception of "sock it to the corporation" on general principle by the judge. In CA I can believe the latter as easily or even more so than the former.
As another (or more than one, perhaps) has/have noted; it's all about the lawyers finding a way to line their pockets irrespective of whether there has been any actual harm or not or whether there's even any sense in the claim.
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On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 2:03:02 PM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Yep, somewhere in the past 20 years both width and thickness of lumber has changed. I hadn't bought any in about that time and needed some 1x4. Instead of them being almost 3/4" they were only a bit over 1/2".
Harry K
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in

settlement_o? utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=jump&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PSBU0905 14&day 14-09-05>

That will be overturned on appeal.
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Is the 3/4 ply still used or did they cut it by about 1/32 or 1/64 of an inch ? I guess the 2x4 stud is still the standard length that is a few inches short of 8 feet long for the walls, unless you get the true 8 foot long ones.
I don't that much lumber and have not kept up with all the changes, just know that things are not what they were years ago. Makes it difficult to match up things when remodling the older houses.
I am just glad the bolt and nut sizes have not changed over the years like the lumber. A 1/4 x 20 screw and nut today will match up with the same number from years ago.
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On 09/16/2014 5:04 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

...
The shorter tubaX studs are generally labelled as "precuts" and are sized for the specific finished wall height w/ base and top plates. Dimensional construction lumber is what is full length.
Ply is a different story entirely...again construction material from fir/pine is thinner but manufactured to meet the Code requirements for stiffness, etc., for the various applications. There are different products for sheathing as opposed to subflooring and the like now whereas in the olden days there was basically "just ply".
I've not checked on what the composites like MDF and all are these days, but I _think_ they're still running full thickness...anybody here already checked that out to not duplicate effort? I've bought nothing recently at all other than hardwood ply for cabinetry/furniture and it has been of the pricey variety that is not at all reflective of construction materials.
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:20:59 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

"Half inch" plywood is really 12mm and sold as 15/32. The surface dimensions are metric too. 120x240 CM
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On 09/16/2014 5:11 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Not really...from Georgia Pacific's pdf (to which I posted link upthread) at least their spec's are
• 15/32 CAT (3-ply), 0.451( (11.45 mm) • 15/32 CAT (4-ply), 0.451( (11.45 mm) • 19/32 CAT, 0.578( (14.68 mm) • 23/32 CAT, 0.703( (17.85 mm)
which are neither even in metric _nor_ full-bore 32nd's. (I hadn't actually calculated the decimal before, had just thought it was but the CAT listing made me punch the calculator this time)...
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wrote:

but I have to wonder if that answers the question.
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I'll be darned if I can copy the link properly, now that Google has gotten all smarty pants on us. But search for the actual injunction and judgment:
lowes-2x4-final-judgement.pdf.
It says nominal descriptions are ok. But I guess we are now faced with 2x4s on the shelves that are sub-nominal. Who knew?
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wrote:

liar!
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On 9/16/2014 6:30 PM, Pico Rico wrote:

Hey, even on Usenet, we don't tell a whopper like that.
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Christopher A. Young
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There wasn't any DA involved, this was a civil action
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Hmmm, Don't they have better things to do down there in California? That judge never did any thing with lumber stocks, I bet.
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:59:21 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

The problem comes in if you are building cabinets or other things where you are putting the wood in a dado. Router bits usually come in standard sizes. If you use a 1/2" bit, the wood will be sloppy in the joint. Fortunately metric stuff is becoming more popular and you can get a 12mm router bit.
OTOH if you buy premium plywood like the hardwood veneers, it will be in "inch" sizes ... usually. It just forces you to use the "good stuff" even when it is not seen unless you want to use metrics and inch sized tools.
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On 09/16/2014 5:59 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

...
There is now a plentiful supply of router bits for the 32nd-under ply...
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Hi, Now some body quick sue all the auto manufacturers. There engine displacement figure is not exactly accurate no. Like 3.7 liter is little under 3.7, etc.
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More probably just local government bureaucrats unaware that US federal laws concerning weights and measures are more than a century old and the National Bureau of Standards authorized traditional lumber size standards nearly as long ago.
This is of a piece with people who assert geometry would be easier if pi equalled exactly 3.
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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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