Non incandescent bulbs?

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Picked up the following quote on a technical news group where a particular thread was expressing concern about the severe deterioration of 'ordinary' AM (Amplitude Modulated) radio broadcasts. Much of it, probably (most likely?) in the opinion of some who feel they are technically informed, due the mandatory introduction of digital TV?
Yeah, I know complain to your Congressman or government member! that you had to buy a new TV, or install a new TV antenna etc.
Quote: "The low wattage (CFL) light bulbs also generate more noise than illumination. A neighbor almost burned his house down due to the failure of one of the little power supplies in the base of the bulb** which overheated while he was away from home. He went back to using incandescents and his RFI (Radio Frequency noise Interference) has improved although the HDTV (High Definition 'digital' TV) remains his nemesis".
** Locally: We had one CFL that failed and 'fell apart'; around same time someone posted on a news group about a CFL that had burned up. Then within days there was an incident discussed on a local radio show about a local doctor who had a CFL catch fire and burn up a light fixture. Fortunately it happened while the doctor was at home; she smelled the burning and tracked down the problem; but the lamp fixture was ruined.
Overall this business of RFI (Interference) is increasing; due to the multiplicity of electronic 'gadgets' and additional consumers services. One buys some cheap gadget (perhaps a dimmer, or touch-on lamp or programmable something or other) supposedly FCC and or UL or CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approved and then wonders why a certain radio station or door opener doesn't work as reliably as before!
KISS, Keep it simple sir, is maybe the best policy?
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I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandesants- halogen for where I must.
The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they. Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from the tax.
This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few years ago, he closed his business recently.
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I bet selling incandesants is in your declining line of work. I use near 100 cfl at several locations and cut my overall bill 30-50% using them, they last, HD has a 7 yr warranty, I will only buy incandesants- halogen for where I must.
The incandesant lightbulb is actualy an electric heater, outputting only 3-6% of energy consumed as light you see, anybody relying on AC in summer doesnt need a bigger bill from incandesants, do they. Incandesants should be heavily taxed, CFls should be subsidised from the tax.
This reminds me of my film camera store, still pushing film a few years ago, he closed his business recently. ____________________________________________________
That's great that you cut your energy cost, and that you wanted to use CFL bulbs. If you want to use them, you should be allowed to do so.
I am not concerned about the energy cost of the few bulbs in our house and I don't want to use CFL's. If I don't want to use them, I should be allowed to use incandesents.
Get the government out of our everyday lives and decisions, like what light bulb to use, and what health care I want.
Bob-tx
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Bob-tx wrote:

Exactly. I use cfl's to cut my electricity cost and like low flow toilets since I have a septic system but I don't want to be dictated to as to what I should use. Let the market place dictate, not the morons in DC.
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To me, paying any utility co, is throwing money away. The bills kill me and I see no negatives on cfls except some areas still need incandesants, like dimmed can lights.
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This all-electric four bedroom 40 year old 2100 sq foot main floor + 1600 sq ft unfinished basement has total utility (that's electricity) , plus municipal taxes (including water and sewer), plus insurance costs of less than $4500 per year (about $350/month Canadian; or $300/month US $. Now starting to do some maintenance which even if it amounts to say $20,000 to $40,000 (Unlikely) is equivalent of around $500 to $1000 per year of occupancy. Not too bad for a house that we built without a mortgage in the 1970s. Don't think one could downsize for less than that. And where would one put all the 'junk' of a lifetime????? Oh yes and btw we have to buy a new snowblower; the older third hand used one has finally 'bought the farm'. Cheers.
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350 month avg, thats alot im in 3500 sq ft and electric averages 38 a month, not including AC. AC and heat , Today 92f and down to -20f winter is expensive. I was 65 a month before CFLs
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On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT), ransley

In a perfect world ----- I have had TERRIBLE luck with Sylvania CF PAR bulbs. 3 two-packs now that one bulb in each was dead within 30 seconds - have not had one last 2 years yet. Several have failed within 4 months. The old incandescents lasted over 4 years. I just replaced one for the second time in TWENTY EIGHT YEARS - and it is used daily - usually for more than 3 hours a day.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:
<SNIP what would otherwise be resaid more than once, as I edit for space>

Can you tell us model numbers / part numbers and nominal wattages that have been so unlucky, as well as good description of what kind of fixtures these fared so poorly in?
Please tell the world every possible detail of any CFL that has had 3 out of 6 croaking within half a minute. I have not even found the stool specimens from dollar stores to be *that bad*.

Please tell us manufacturer, model #, part #, and every other relevant description/info of incandescents having such duration.
I also note that it is easy to get incandescents to have such good duration - as long as they have energy efficiency decreased by something like 40% in comparison to that of "standard incandescents".
Please keep in mind the cost breakdown of incandescent lighting - normally very little is from purchasing bulbs; incandescent lighting cost is very heavily electricity cost. 2nd place cost of incandescent lighting is arguably cost of air conditioning to pump the lighting's heat outdoors, even where air conditioning sees much use only 4 months per year.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Aug 8, 9:24pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Try HD stuff, In 2 years ive had 1 flood blow out of near 10, HD has the most lienient return policy, but in cold, 0 to -10 they take 5 minutes to get 90% bright, if you leave them on all night or for hours they are great, many of mine are in motion sensors, but my electric bills are great.
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ransley wrote:
<SNIP previously quoted stuff>

Good luck and more power to you for the motion sensors. Hot cathode fluorescents have a lot more wear per start than incandescents, and motion sensor lights are normally not on for enough time to make much of an energy conservation opportunity.
I would use incandescents for the motion sensors. Many, including reflector flood and spot types, are not affected by the upcoming 2012/2014 USA ban.
http://members.misty.com/don/incban.html
There are cold cathode compact fluorescents, probably best available from online lightbulb sellers such as bulbs.com. These do not suffer significant wear from starting. They are somewhat less efficient than hot cathode CFLs, but remain a lot more efficient than incandescents. However, they have the same issue of starting dim and needing to warm up that hot cathode CFLs have.
Most cold cathode CFLs are rated for use with dimmers.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 07:23:35 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Sylvania 15 watt Osram/Sylvania reflector (par) bulbs in recessed non-insulated ceiling (pot light) fixtures. number on the bulb says cf15elbr30frost

The inccandescents were, IIRC, 60 watt PAR32. in the same fixtures. Just replaced the last one, installed in1998, over a week ago (and replaced it wirh the Sylvania that lasted 30 seconds). I also have some Philips Marathon 15 watt PAR32 CFL bulbs in service - less than 2 years yet, but still working

Tody is the second day we've had the AC on here in Central Ontario this year. Most summers are MUCH hotter and more humid.
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I suspect those are minor improvement over whatever insulated ones for CFL overheating. For CFLs, I like to refer to recessed ceiling fixtures in general as "heat hellholes".
Philips has, as of last time I checked, a product line of CFLs with non-dimmable ones up to and including 23 watts (and not including 25 watts) being outright rated for use in recessed ceiling fixtures. These are not PAR floods, but there are snap-on flood-reflectors available for these. I strongly recommend using the wider R40 one as opposed to the narrower R30 one if the R40 one fits with at least almost 1/4 inch of air space around its rim for convected air to flow around.

Thanks for this info - makes me think 3.75 inch diameter frosted reflectorized floodlight with bulge approaching the base. This leads to a bit of homework for me to do to see if the problem you had with this one is common enough to show up in web searches. Please feel free to nag me here in the likely event I get get sidetracked by the other $#!+ that I do, such as a "day job" and a "side job", a website of mine that I need to work at at least a little for, and spending time and some effort to maintain a relationship with "someone special" that I would refer to as my spouse if PA marriage law was like that of Canada...

Thanks for what you told us here so far - but I fail to see manufacturer or brand, or part number specific enough to confirm or rule out vibration-resistant filament design (less efficient), longlife version, halogen version, whatever.

This slightly reinforces the good sensation that I have received for Philips CFLs. Philips is one of the "Big Three", all 3 of which I have found generally better in USA than others for CFs and lightbulbs in general. The other 2 are Sylvania and GE.
<SNIP a dozen or so lines mostly previously quoted>

I have noted already as a weather and atmospheric science nut that the Ontario-to-Hudson-Bay area had an especially cool July, as part of mid-year so-far having generally northeast and northeastern-"MidWest" USA and nearby region of Canada running notably cool. This occurred during a time period having a slightly wild swing in global temperature as determined by interpretation of satellite data for "lower troposphere" and where the global surface temperature upticked a bit from "warm but downturning the global warming trend" to "warmth of 2004-2005 *maybe-maintained*.
I still note that the coolness of NE and eastish-N-central USA and areas of Canada from such to around Hudson Bay did indeed occur. I merely say that this cooling is a temporary one of maybe 2% of the globe's area.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Our local electric company just posted a $7 million loss for the second quarter of this year. They attributed it to idle factories, a cool summer and consumer conservation.
What do you think is going to happen during the next rate-increase hearings?
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Bunch of guys in suits, whining about the revenue loss, and they got to have a rate increase. When they increase the rates, more people will conserve, and they will lose even more money. Leading to more rate increases because of the revenue loss.
--
Christopher A. Young
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Musta been Reagan conservatives.
--
Christopher A. Young
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No just a retired geezer who built most of the two homes we have owned since 1960 and keeps track of things technical and costs of running and maintaining a home.
This house is all-electric. If we had realized while building it some 40 years ago that electricity costs would rise from around 2.5 to 4 cents per kilowatt hour, back then not really competitive with oil, which was then cheaper (no gas here except expensive bottled propane) to now just over 10 cents per kwhr. we might have done a 'few' things slightly differently. BTW 99.9% of the homes here are all-electric. With a few newer ones using heat pumps.
But even today with most new houses now constructed to R2000 standards etc. this 4 bedroom house, compared to most, has a reasonable overall energy cost.
Oddly I was dropping off a pick-up load of wood scraps for my son's friend wood stove last night and he mentioned, without me ever raising the subject, that he has had to make numerous replacements of CFLs in the newly constructed house he bought one year ago. By the same token our bathroom is almost entirely heated by the six 40 watt bulbs (240 watts) above the vanity mirror! The regular 500 watt electric baseboard in that room rarely cuts in except in coldest weather. And by comparison have replaced only perhaps three or four incandescent bulbs in this whole house since march of 2008.
The wasted heat of incandescents. Last night (August 8th) the temperature here was about 10 Celsius, 50 to 55 deg F so with the one or two 60 or 100 watt side-table lamps and the medium sized TV exuding heat in the family room temp was OK at 11.00 PM without putting on a sweater. The electric heater thermostat in that room has been mainly turned off for last couple of months.
So heat energy is heat no matter where it comes from; especially during cool/chilly and evenings and during winter nights (5.00 PM onwards etc.) and after dark which is when the lights tend to be on. Simple incandescent lamps ARE very INefficient at producing light. But in some situations any of their 'wasted' energy is just so much needed warmth!
Also lamp-light energy itself, from any source, spends a few micro/ micro seconds in the form of light and is then absorbed by the walls, furniture and persons in the home as heat. .
Incandescent bulbs presently cost anywhere from 88 cents to 1.00 for pack of four. Plus sales tax of 13%. That's Canadian price; about the equivalent of 23 to 25 cents US per bulb. In our service they seem to each last several years and the 'lost/wasted' heat is merely part of the house heating load.
The one really inefficient fixture in this house is the Long Life 50 watt incandescent front porch light. Which is on most of all nights for safety and insurance purpose. But since it is also switched on by a remotely controlled electronic switch, so that my neighbours can switch it on and off from across the street if/when I'm away and it needs a short ladder to replace the bulb. So am glad we are only on our second bulb in some five to ten years years (seem to remember having to put a new bulb in that fixture in 2007???). But yes the heat (and light) from that one is wasted to all outdoors. Well maybe one of the 70 or so trees we have planted over the last 40 years absorbs some of the light during the night? :-) :-)
Theoretically if this house was sufficiently well insulated with quadruple glass windows etc. etc. it would be possible to heat and light the place with a single light bulb! But then there wouldn't possibly be enough air exchange to breathe!
Almost all the electrcity generated here is from hydro-water power with a small standby oil burning station near the main city. A further huge new hydro development is in the cards at The Lower Churchill in Labrador which will produce allegedly 'clean' electric power for this area and providing further electricity exports to and through the New England states of the USA. The existing 1960s Churchill Falls underground power generating station is said to be the biggest in the world with some of the electricity it generates powering places as distant as New York City!
Using hydro should help keep energy costs down and be less polluting than burning coal?
Oh. BTW cfls and other fluorescents such as we use in our kitchen, workshop and a storeroom, are not designed (we are told) to be switched on and off frequently???? Wondering if that limits their use on say stairs and/or bathrooms (without windows) which are only momentary use situations? We are going to replace the porch light and will try using a CFL there hoping it will be compatible with the electronic switch? We also have two outside motion/night-time sensor fixtures that ONLY takes incandescent floods. In some two plus years we have not, so far, replaced any bulbs.
Cheers.
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<SNIP previously quoted material>

What do you think is going to happen during the next rate-increase hearings?
1. The electric company will get a rate hike sufficient to restore its profit level. Its customer base will end up paying as much per month as before for the company's profit. However, its customer base will still benefit from reduced generating fuel cost and reduced cost of constructing new power plants.
2. If the customers implement conservation unequally, those who do less to conserve or do not conserve at all will be hit harder by the rate increase.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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terry wrote:
<In short, mostly bad things about CFLs>
My experience is that nearly all scary and spectacular failures of CFLs and all instances of CFLs coming apart involved dollar store stool specimens that lacked any sign of UL approval and FCC approval. I have had only one non-dollar-store one so much as having the tubing come loose, and that was a non-"Big 3" brand one being operated in an enclosed ceiling fixture. At end-of-life, normal extra heating around the filaments in the ends of the tubing softened a nearby part of the plastic ballast housing.
UL-approved integral-ballast CFLs have any significant plastic parts made of suitably flame-retardant plastic.
I have also found the dollar store stool specimens, in my experience, to have a high rate of having worse-than-average color and a 100% rate of falling short of claimed light output.
In the USA, 120V lightbulbs with integral electronic ballasts or magnetic ballasts are normally UL listed. Furthermore in the USA, 120V lightbulbs with integral electronic ballasts are normally FCC approved. Separate 120V ballasts in USA are also normally UL listed, and if they are electronic type they are normally FCC approved.
I have had a few but not most FCC-approved CFLs noticeably interfere with nearby AM radios and nearby analog TV sets.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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terry wrote:

I had been meaning to ask if CFL's have an internal fuse. About 15 years ago I bought a special light bulb that you could dim by turning it off and on the appropriate number of times. That sucker nearly burnt down my house. I had it in a ceiling fan that the previous owners wired with chain and lamp cord to a switched outlet. I was home and smelled something burning and traced it to the lamp cord. I had to wait 15 minutes before the light cooled off enough to remove it and it was still hot. Just to eliminate the ceiling fan as the possible culprit, I tried it again in the garage on concrete were it couldn't burn anything. After being on for about 3 hours it again started to short out. The light kept working perfectly so there was no visual indication of any problems.
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