noisy door

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My flat has a heavy security door. While it opens silenty, it gives a very high and loud squeak when closing, disturbing not only me but my neighbours as well.
Oiling and greasing has not helped. A carpenter discouraged me strongly from touching the hinges. I suggested the cylinders in the hinges should be taken out one by one, cleaned and re-inserted. He was not happy about that and wanted to think about the problem. Three weeks and three phone calls later, he is still thinking.
Any suggestion about possible causes and possible remedies?
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gfa2c wrote:

Methinks you need a new carpenter....
You might try some penetrating lubricant on the hinges. But...
If by "cylinders" you mean what are usually called "hinge pins", your idea is correct, you should be able to remove them one at a time, clean and oil them and pop them back in. You might need a helper to lift and push the door a bit if the hinge halves don't line up properly to let you reinsert a pin. It's hardly rocket science y'know.
Let us know how you make out...
Jeff
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Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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Powdered graphite might solve the problem once the oil and grease is removed. It is the preferred old-timers solution for hinges and locks.
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Graphite powder is so fine it spreads easily i.e. can make other objects dirty. Candle wax may be a better short-term fix.
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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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To support door (working by oneself) rig up a lever made of something sturdy under edge of door resting on somethithing round (maybe a pencil or piece of wood dowel) and then by stepping on the lever it will usually be possible to 'ease' the door up on it's hinge pins. Then (or if they are the removable type) it should be possible to dribble some lubricant into the hinge parts! And/or use a drinking straw to 'blow' some oil into the interstices between the two moving parts of the hinges! If that doesn't work it may be possible to 'ease' the screws, and swing door a couple of times then retighten the screws having also oiled them some more. Any kind of oil (even cooking oil) should work! Someone is making a mountain out of molehill problem; or trolling!
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On 3/22/2009 6:02 AM Don Phillipson spake thus:

Besides, graphite isn't the right lubricant to use here. Too light.
It's the best thing for locks, by the way: doesn't gum up the works, and totally unaffected by low or high temperatures. (Don't believe me? ask any locksmith.)
What would be better for hinges on what sounds like a somewhat heavy door would be grease, which won't dry out like oil (at least not as fast).
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I asked the locksmith I use. He said: * Don't use graphite. It makes a mess and doesn't lubricate that well. It used to be the standard, but not anymore. [I still find it inside lots of locks that I remove, and he's right about the mess.] * Don't use WD-40 because it doesn't last long enough. [It's OK for a short-term fix.] * Don't use heavy oil like automotive motor oil. * Use a light machine oil like 3-in-1.
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Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
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I think that three in one stuff is worse than WD. Dries, and gets gummy in a hurry.
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Christopher A. Young
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OK, I am a locksmith and here is the skinny on lube for locks. Graphite is good, unless there is something sticky in the lock cylinder then it can get bad because it turns to mud. A safe thing to use is a Teflon spray as it tends to flush out any crud and leave only a thin slippery film behind. WD 40 will work, but doesn't remain effective for a long period of time.
Graphite also can cause a problem if someone thinks more is better.
It would work fine for a hinge except delivery is a problem. Hear a light oil that can get sucked in by capillary action is the easy solution
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Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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Wow.

Then the oil didn't get where it is supposed to go.

You don't want to suffer from the Curse of the Hinges, I'm sure. So don't touch them. Although this only applies to those who have been sacrificed to volcanoes and survived. So it should be ok.

He sounds very wise. It's much eaiser to take out hinge pins if there are three hinges, and not just two. On an outside door, there are probably more than two. Me, I'm lazy and would just oil some more. It's not just the hinge pines that matter but the metal "cylinders"**, the knuckles, of one half-hinge rest on the cylinders of the other half. So you should make sure that all these border lines have been oiled. Until you find the one that is making the noise.
Come to think of it: Before you oil any more, I'll bet you can put your hand in turn on each half hinge, and open the door, and feel which one vibrates. I don't know if you should touch the metal firmly or lightly, or how much vibration there will be, or if touching the bottom of a hinge is will let you sense vibration in the top of the hinge, given that the area in between is screwed to the doorframe. Maybe you have to touch each of the knuckles individulally, but that must be why God gave you several fingers. Yes, I think you should touch each knuckle, while the door is squeaking.
**(that's the word you used, but either we mean different things or I don't know what you mean by "taken out". You certainly don't want to detach the half-hinge from the door or door frame. That's the last thing you want to do.

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I too would have just oiled it all over in the first place, but since that didn't work, it's time to spend time on diagnosis, testing, rather than just plunging ahead with fixing.
People tend to not spend enough time on testing and diagnosis.
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On 3/21/2009 2:57 PM gfa2c spake thus:

Cause? The hinges, obviously (unless the door is scraping on something, which would probably be pretty obvious).
Remedy? Lubricate the hinges, as you suggested. Dunno why that carpenter doesn't like the idea; the hinges need to be removed, lubed, and replaced.
--
Made From Pears: Pretty good chance that the product is at least
mostly pears.
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You need to move out.
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Various replies have mentioned cleaning & lubricating the hinges. Certainly a high probability of resolution.
Couple of notes. I had a creaking one. Lubes it with WD40 (OMG! shoot me). Worked for a bit of time then started again (yak yak yak it's not a lubricant). Removed and cleaned pins. Coated pins with some wheel bearing grease. Never returned.
One more remote possibility is that the hinges got bent or door frame has moved. In that case it just might be that the hinge is straining the wood in such a way the wood is actually doing the creaking. But you described it as a very high squeak vs midrange creak. Not much hope there.
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The term "heavy security door" could be many things. I assume that the door in question is the metal security grill commonly bolted on to the outside of the regular door frame.
Often the problem is that the lube you are using does not get in to the area that is doing the squeaking, but rather staying on the outside. What might help is to lift the door a bit while it is open to remove pressure on the hinges and then squirt some oil inside.
As an option if your carpenter does not want to deal with this problem, your local locksmith might be able to solve the problem.
--

Roger Shoaf

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If the door has a hydraulic door closer, very often the pivots on the closer arm are the source of the noise. Give em a spray of WD, and see if that quiets the noise. Other than that, you may end up doing your own removal and grease job on the hinges.
--
Christopher A. Young
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gfa2c wrote:

Unless they are some really exotic hinges I can't see why taking out the hinge pins is such an issue. Pop out one at a time and wipe down then partially reinsert and lubricate with a long lasting lubricant (NOT wd40). I like triflow. Then tap them all the way in.
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Thanks to all!
I have got to add some details. The door is damn heavy with 4 hinges.
The pins are not hinge pins. They are totally free, that's why I called them cylinders. They have caps top and bottom and I don't know how to open them. One of them is likely to be fixed.
In principle, I believe they could be extracted one by one reducing the risk that the hinges move out of alignment: one hinge would float, 3 hinges would hold (but the load on the hinges is not uniform). After removing the dirt, I have nothing against trying very fine penetrating oil rather than grease or graphite. The squeaking noise may come from some grain of dirt although it is not clear why the door remains silent when opening.
The screws on the hinges were tightened mechanically, they cannot be opened with screw drivers or hobby drills.
I cannot handle it alone. And my carpenter is sticking to his advice: you touch the hinges, you are in line for a new door. Well, I'm in line for a second opinion right now.
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gfa2c wrote:

Tried graphite oil? Wonder if the hinges are self closing spring loaded ones? If so you'll see horizontal slit at the top side of hinge where you can stick a pin into a hole and adjust the spring tension.
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it is a cylinder and is adjustable with a small allan wrench at the bottom of the cylinder.
--
Chris


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