Remodeling daughter's attic. Presently 2"x 8" floor joists with 1"x7" shiplap perpendicular thereon. Ultimate goal is carpet with high quality pad. What else can I do to reduce noise transfer? Place 1/2" osb on top? Go thicker? Place thin foam underneath osb? Thin like the stuff they use under floating laminate floors. All advise appreciated. Ivan Vegvary
Just my own 2 centavos, but I would lay what was once commonly referred to as soundboard (aka insulation board) instead of foam, assuming still available these days. One could also use cork board as in recording studios, and float the finish floor (dead quiet). Personally, I would not use foam, but more a matter of available funds, local codes and personal preference.
I'm sure others will have better suggestions perhaps...
Ivan:
There really isn't anything you can do that will be both practical and effective.
I'd suggest a carpet with a thick underpad, that's only going to cut down on the noise foot falls make. You'll still be able to hear noise from the attic down stairs and vice versa.
What is the main source of noise? Is it noise from walking on floor, or just ambient noise floating down? If the former, the solution is to decouple the surface on which people walk from the framing, I like the cork idea someone posted. If the latter, then probably the best idea would be insulation in the joist bays, if that is not enough then tear down ceiling below and reinstall but decoupled e.g. 2x4s staggered so ceiling is not screwed to the 2x8s and not touching them (lower ceiling height 2" or so) run fiberglass batts above 2x4s and below 2x8s if that makes sense.
And if you have an open doorway... all bets are off...
nate
On one TV studio remodeling job I worked on, the sound transfer from the upstairs offices was quite apparent through the tongue and groove wood floor. A sound engineer was brought in and he had the crew lay down a layer of drywall (AKA Sheetrock) over the whole floor to which a fiberglass sound board was placed over. A layer of plywood was added over everything to finish it. No sound problems after that. Apparently drywall is good for stopping sound. I asked about the drywall breaking up over time and he said that the drywall has no where to go so it will be fine.
Send her to boarding school.
Homosote / tentest or whatever it is called today.
If the ceiling below is up for grabs, I noticed that there is a drywall that is made for lessening sound. I saw it at either HD or Lowes. A lot more expensive than regular drywall, not sure how effective it is.
I would expect that isolating it from the floor framing, either by using
2x4s as I suggested in a previous post or else by suspending it from resilient channel would provide more effect. However if you are going to have to buy drywall anyway might as well try the "quiet" stuff.nate
Assuming you can't 'float' the whole attic floor above the ceiling; you could make a 'layered' approach. Consisting of, carpet, pad, normal floor layer, 1/32 inch thick lead sheeting [available in bulk at about the same cost as flooring, weighs], cork layer, lead sheeting, cork layer, and ceiling. Something like that. Not weigh too much and won't transfer talking and music [as long as the stereo is up off the floor], but will transfer a bit of that hated thumping from heavily walking about. Not cost a lot, fairly easy to put in and not too thick, so won't lose room height.
Just move the daughter to the basement where there is a solid concrete slab. End of problem. Cost: A few hours work moving her stuff, and maybe a coat of paint on the walls.
Probably more of a job than you're interested in, but I wonder if stagger-joists would be worth it. I've heard that for walls, stagger-studding does wonders. That's where you add another set of studs, offset to one side, so that one side of the wall attaches to one set of studs, and the other side of the wall attaches to the other set of studs. That way, a hit on one side of the wall doesn't transmit directly thru a stud to the other wall.
I've never done it, but it sounds like a good idea!
Similar concept is applied in studio situations, but usually a second wall is framed with dead space between plates, the two sides cannot share a common sill/ top plate or sound is propagated through the sill & Top plates.
I still maintain that a layer of insulation board (sound board or cork board) and a floating floor will satisfy all requirements for noise reduction. Essentially, one only has to change the characteristics of a single face of a sandwich to reduce transference ...a common Wall may be viewed as a sandwich in which both sides are of equal mass, materiel, and will yield maximum transfer of sound -- think matched impedance. Change the mass or characteristics of one side and they are no longer equally matched and thus, sound transference is reduced.
That fairly easy to do with a wall since both walls sit on a sill plate which rests on a floor. Not so easily done with floor joists. How would another set of joists be "offset to one side" since the "side" would be either up or down? Sure, I guess it's possible, but man, that would be a lot of work.
Croy:
It is a good idea, and it's a system that's commonly used on commercial buildings with concrete block walls. The problem is that staggered joists don't lend themselves to wood stud construction very well.
With concrete block walls, one row of concrete blocks could support the ceiling joists of the floor below, and the next higher row of blocks could support the floor joists of the floor above as every row of blocks is able to support the weight of a floor. I don't know how you could adapt that system to one where you have 2X4 or 2X6 exterior walls so that you have only one elevation on which to support both your floor joists and your ceiling joists.
I have staggered floor / ceiling joists in my building. The construction blue prints say to use fir 2 X 12's on 12 inch centers (yes, only 12 inches apart), but those times where I've had ceilings open, I've found that in some places they are on 12 inch centers and in some places they're on 16 inch centers. I agree 100 percent that you do not need 2 X 12's to support ceiling plaster; much less 2X12 ceiling joists on 12 inch centers.
My building is fairly quiet, but I can't say I don't ever get noise complaints. It was more of a problem years ago when powerful stereos were all the rage. Nowadays, stereos have been largely replaced by computers and smartphones as the adult toys of choice, and so loud stereo problems are more and more becoming a thing of the past. Whenever the problem is due to a loud stereo, I've found that the best way to deal with it is to tell tenants they have to turn the bass control all the way down after 9:00 PM. Since the tenants above and below are mostly only hearing the BOOM-BOOM-BOOM of the stereo woofers anyhow, eliminating the bass at the source largely eliminates the problem completely.
But, I've also had tenants complain that the tenant above them "walks like a horse" so that they hear the foot falls of the tenant living above, and I've not been able to find a solution to that problem. So staggered joists aren't a cure-all for noise complaints.
One thing that does work very well is concrete block walls between suites on the same floor. My building has concrete block walls around every suite so that a fire cannot spread laterally, only vertically. I have NEVER had any tenant complain about the noise coming from another tenant's apartment on the same floor; only about the tenants living above and below. So, if I ever buy a condo, it's gonna be one with concrete floor and ceilings and concrete block fire separation walls around every unit. That way I'm sure I won't be bothered by the neighbors noise on any side of me.
taking some notes from income properties tv show........
take down the cieling below, best to spray closed cell expanding foam or at least rocksal, however thats spelled. its a sound deadner...
then install the metal connector that isolates the drywall from the studs.
watch a couple episodes they explain it well
For a ceiling, you could use 2x4s or even 2x3s (since they only have to support the weight of the drywall) and those metal hangers like you use for constructing a deck.
Alternately, there is resilient channel made for just this purpose, which is attached to the underside of the floor joists and then the drywall is hung from the channel. e.g.:
NB: I've never used the stuff, so I just picked the first likely hit; I can't recommend or warn against any particular brand/product.
nate
What you are proposing would require the removal of the existing ceilings in the rooms belong the attic, the installation of the new 'joists', and then the installation of the new drywall, mudding, etc.
If there are ceiling light fixtures, crown molding, etc. all of that will have to be dealt with also.
Like I said...man, that would be a lot of work.
Most projects are :/
If you went with the channel you might just install it right over the existing ceiling to save work. that might even attenuate noise more than doing it the conventional way, but I don't know if that would be better or worse than adding insulation in the stud bays.
As for the ceiling light fixture, that's not that hard, just move the box, or add an extension ring (latter not an option for ceiling fan installation though)
nate
plap perpendicular thereon. Ultimate goal is carpet with high quality pad. What else can I do to reduce noise transfer? Place 1/2" osb on top? Go thic ker? Place thin foam underneath osb? Thin like the stuff they use under flo ating laminate floors. All advise appreciated. Ivan Vegvary
I have heard that old carpeting is a good sound absorber, you can staple it up inbetween the rafters if the ceiling is to be opened. Or, is the attic already fully floored, the OP didn't say as I remember.
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