Nobody was listening.

[Dave Jefford]

Are you also a NRA card carrying member?

[Dave Jefford]

Which ape are your referring to? We do have so many running around like mad dogs, many even dress like Wall Street executives.

[Goedjn]

The provisions in question are automatically suspended when a state of martial law exist. This is codified in US law. That law is there for a reason, and that reason is because the last several thousand years of western experience shows us that those are the ROE that are most effective in recovering from a disaster or civil disorder.

Among the many reasons why this is : A person or group of people who cannot be trusted not to loot a store for non-essential also is likely to be the type of person who will attack, rob, rape, and/or kill fellow victims, and rescue workers, and repair crews, and stealing from the rescue depot isn't all that unlikely. When theres NOT a disaster, society has the time and resources to coddle criminals, and look for extenuating circumstances, and be very careful and deliberate in investigating and prosecuting crimes and disturbances. And that is as it should be.

When there's a natural disaster covering an area bigger than many countries, people in the area had best behave obviously like decent human beings, and be cooperative, or they're going to get shot down like rabid dogs, because nobody has the time, resources, or inclination to play dumb-ass f****ng games. And that, too, is as it should be.

--Goedjn

[Dave Jefford]

What if I'm single and I'm trying to save my $5K TV? Damn it, I got shot cuz me love me TV!

[Dave Jefford]

Wow, you might shot NRA card carry members too.

[Dave Jefford]

In time of hardship and difficult situation people will do anything. Do you shoot or condemn anyone who cannibalize?

[Dave Jefford]

My deepest apology, if I offended you or anyone else. I hate long and whinding post. Really hard to follow so I snip and snip.... and come straight to the point!

[Dave Jefford]

Dun tell me, keep it to yourself.

[Don Bruder]

There ya go, dude... Trot out the "debating technique" I believe is properly called "ad absurdium" - Dream up the most outlandish possible exception to whatever statement has been made in an attempt to ridicule it. Sorry, bub, I don't play that game.

Bubba, I value life. *MINE*. Your life, or another's, is of zero value to me unless it somehow improves my chances of retaining mine. IT's that simple.

And rightly so. As you said yourself, life (human or otherwise) is cheap. Dirt cheap. This planet is lousy with life, from deepest ocean trench, to highest mountaintop, and beyond. And you kow what? The *ONLY* "particle" of life on this planet that has any intrinsic value in my eyes is my own. The rest of it is disposable.

And any being who isn't intent on ignoring reality will recognize that as a universal truth - "My life is more important than yours when it comes to choosing between thee and me being the one whose life is to end."

Religion is for the mentally deficient who desperately need a way to make themselves feel as if they are something special in the big picture that is reality. Free hint: You (and I, and every other bit of life that exists) are a fleeting bit of nothing in the cosmos. You will have your moment, and you will pass, opening space for the next to come along. In other words, for a while, you live, and after a while, you die. Regardless of how long or short that "while" happens to be, the cosmos doesn't care, for the simple fact that you are an irrelevant speck amongst uncountable other irrelevant specks. Get over it and make the best of what time you've got.

[Don Bruder]

Those folks who make the claim are welcome to do so, but making a claim doesn't make it so. Some of us have little or no use for the so-called "christian/judeo values" simply because those values are based on the postulate that some "god" exists.

While many of them make good sense (Do unto others, though shalt not steal) as stand-alone concepts, the overall framework from which they spring (There is a god, he/she/it is the all-powerful force in the universe) is fundamentally flawed by a complete lack of anything that even remotely resembles proof, and thus ignored by those of us who practice rational thought, rather than vainly hoping that what propitiating some imaginary being will get us a place in an equally imaginary "afterlife".

(Before you waste your time attempting to argue the "but it's not imaginary" side at me, please gather incontrovertible evidence that the aforementioned "god" and/or "afterlife" exists. Until such evidence is forthcoming, no amount of bleating about how "real" this god of yours is holds any water. Hint: "I believe", or any variation on it, including "The Bible says" is not proof.)

[Dave Hinz]

Yes, the NRA is in support of non-criminals being allowed to arm themselves. Purposes for this include defending themselves against criminals, either individual or governmental, for collecting, investment, enjoyment, target practice, and other purposes that you won't acknowledge as legitimate.

See what I mean? No, it's not about "shoot whatever you want to". You seem to have confused the law-abiding NRA with criminals. Both groups have guns. One is a group of _good_ people, the other is a group of _bad_ people. Perhaps you can see past the hardware to the person?

I notice you again ignore this part. Why, oh why, would that be I wonder? I have two theories...your next response should clear it up as to which is the case.

[David Starr]

And the Liberal logic is to apologise to the looters because "society forced them" to become looters, while the innocent drown.

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[Dave Hinz]

Ah, excuse me, but that's bullshit. It's not hard to identify someone who is looting. And when the society is at the point where criminals are interfering with survival of the good people, the criminals are free to decide that stuff is worth more than their life.

Under normal circumstances, that's absolutely correct. If you actually were a cop of some sort, you would have been trained quite completely in the whole "escalation of force" process, and it's odd that someone who allegely was some sort of a cop whould even make the statement you just did.

They're not innocent once they decide to exploit an emergency for personal greed.

Wow. Pick a point, dude, and try to stick with it.

[Dave Hinz]

Give me a break. Shooting a looter in that situation improves the chances for the survival of the good people. Hint: looters aren't _good people_.

[Duane Bozarth]

Weren't the TVs locked up in the store, too?

[Elmo]

If you are going to snip stuff out you could at least have the decency to retain the original context.

[Duane Bozarth]

FDR wrote: ....

Pretty easy to tell a house from a store...

[Offbreed]

The ones responsible happen to be Democrats. I'm not saying that because they are Democrats, I'm saying it because they screwed up.

This reminds me of a baseball game I played in, IIRC 4th grade. I struck out with bases loaded, ending the game. One of the other players blamed me for losing the game, but shut up pretty quick when I pointed out that I was the third out and he was the second. Bases were loaded for him, too. What I did would not have mattered had he cleaned the bases instead of striking out as well.

Why are you trying to blame Bush and Brown for losing the game? Had Blanco, Nagin, and Ebbert had done their jobs, Bush and Brown would not have to be as perfect as you seem to be demanding.

Blanco is still paralyzed with moral panic.

[Offbreed]

Ahhhhh. (blissfull sigh)

"I have a dreeeam."

Well, it's not as good as stringing them up, but it's got to be cheaper than keeping them in office.

[Offbreed]

Looting (stealing from a store or home owner who has lost everything he or she owns in that building anyhow) quickly becomes robbing the other survivors of what they have.

Robbery wastes resources. The thief gains less than the victim loses, yielding a net loss of assets in the population and increasing the number of people who need rescue.