No satisfaction from American Standard

[sherwindu]

You would think that American Standard would do something about the poor flushing toilets they started making when the 1.3 gal rule kicked in. I made the mistake of buying one of those in a non-standard color, Rhapsody Blue. I did my whole bathroom in that color. However, I later discovered that the damm toilet did not do the job, and the plunger became a necessity. I am almost positive the toilet is installed properly and the line is clear because of another nearby toilet working fine on the same line. Then I heard American Standard was coming out with a new line of toilets to work around the earlier poor design. This model was called the 'Champion' and came out in only two colors. I thought it was only a matter of time before they would come out with my color. Guess again. They have increased their color line to what is probably the maximum, and Rhapsody Blue is not there. There is currently only one toilet they make in my color, and it's the old style version that doesn't cut it. So I'm left holding the plunger because I bought a defective toilet from a company that doesn't back up their products.

Sherwin D.

[Noozer]

There is currently only one toilet they make in my color, and it's the old style

Or a consumer doesn't do their homework.

[buffalobill]

water saver toilets didn't work very well with 4" old cast iron sewers. maybe you've got the newer pvc sewer at your place. on the possiblity of an invisible obstruction: drain all the water out and shopvac out the leftover water, remove toilet from the floor, run a closet auger snake all the way thru, tie an old towel to the end, pull it back up to the user side of the toilet and see if you win a free toothbrush or plastic picnic spoon or whatever may be stuck there. this presumes your previous bathroom was existing. see also:

new toilet may flush just fine when sitting outdoors and filled by your garden hose.or in the tub on a towel covered pair of concrete blocks. play with it with a helper or two and see. if the bathroom is brand new and this is its first toilet there may be a VENT problem. see also:

[Joseph Meehan]

Many people feel that if they spend a lot of money on a product it will function better or at least properly. This is not so and in toilets it is more of a problem than most. Most toilets sold are bought by contractors, who only buy based on price, after all who makes the decision to buy a new home based on a test of how well the toilet works? Most people buying a replacement or remolding, look at how pretty it is is (non-standard color) and don't do their homework on what works well. The manufacturers sell what people buy.

Information is available on what works well is available. Try Consumer Reports for one source. You can also generally expect a that if it has a FULLY GLAZED trap of 2" or larger (larger is better) it will function properly. Neither of those two features cost much, but I doubt if more than

1% of the people who make the decision about what to buy even know what those things mean, let alone bother to check the specifics of what they buy. They look at the outside and make sure it is the right color.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Consumer Reports actually tested toilets using pseudo-turds. You can read how they did it when you go to the library, which you WILL before buying your next toilet. Right? I understand that it's stylish to doubt CR, but in fact, some of their work is done very well.

[hallerb]

Try checking Canada for your color.

They still sell the old good flushers there:)

You can check e bay too, a little pricey but cheaper than gutting your bathroom! canadians sell new toilets shipping them into the us

who knows american standard might still sell that color as a old style into canada?

[hilary]

We installed a low-usage toilet in our upstairs bathroom. Because of the poor design and not enough water, we had your same problem with constant plunging.

My husband spent about 20 minutes upside underneath the tank, drilling out the plastic thing (water inlet valve I guess). He then replaced the "guts" of the toilet with standard packaged stuff from Home Depot. The entire project cost about $20 and took about an hour. Now we have "old style" flushing and the toilet hasn't blocked up in 4 years.

[sherwindu]

[sherwindu]

Nope. This is an older 50's house. I kind of recall the previous toilet did not have these problems, plus there is a larger capacity toilet on a short extension line which is working fine.

Sherw> water saver toilets didn't work very well with 4" old cast iron

[sherwindu]

Hi Hilary, Not sure exactly how you worked around your problem. The limitation as I see it, is the capacity of the tank (1.3 gal) plus the diameter of the outflow tubes in the toilet itself. I have my tank set to the maximum height of water, to no avail. I'm not sure what 'guts' your husband was able to replace, short of a whole new toilet?

Sherw> We installed a low-usage toilet in our upstairs bathroom. Because of

[JoeSpareBedroom]

He probably means that it's often worth checking Consumer Reports. For some products, like stereo speakers, their opinions are nothing but that - opinions. But sometimes, you read one of their articles and see that they've tested something in a unique way which has nothing to do with opinion. Toilets were a good example. You probably would've bought something different if you'd done your homework.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The guts is the mechanism inside the tank. Most use 1.3 gallons, but have a resevoir of considerably more. Watch a flush and see how much water is left.

[hilary]

He said there was a plastic tub set into the tank, and that the 1.3 gallons fit in the tub. There was no water in the rest of the tank. He drilled out/removed the tub, so that the entire tank would fill with water. The removal of the tub required some repairs (new float, etc.) because some things were attached to the plastic tub. Again, once this was completed, we had a "regular" high water use toilet, and we now only have to flush once, instead of 5-6 times. The brand is Eljer, so I don't know if American Standard toilets can be fixed this easily. Good luck!

[EXT]

Had some friends who moved into a new house with toilets that had plastic tubs in the tanks. Nothing was attached to the tub, the flapper valve was inside the tub. The tub kept a lot of water in the tank after flushing -- basically it was an high flow toilet with a restrictor in the tank to convert it to a low flow -- which seriously impacted its performance. We simply took a pair of heavy scissors to the tub and hacked a large chunk out of an accessible side of the thin plastic tub so that the trapped water could escape down to flush the toilet. All three toilets worked fine afterwards.

[hilary]

Our tank has a regular "old style" capacity, and the 1.3 gallon tub was all that would fill with water. Once the tub was removed and a new float installed (original was in the tub), the whole tank was able to fill up with water. Do you really have only a 1.3 gallon tank?

[sherwindu]

You folks have short memories. When the government came out with their edict about 1.3 gallon toilets, you couldn't buy much else. There was not a lot of testing going on, so many people bought these things thinking of saving the water and our dependencies on it. By the time I realized what the problems were with the 1.3's, I had already committed to 'Rhapsody Blue' for my tub, sink,and toilet. American Standard still makes that color in their Cadet series of old fashioned designs. I was hoping to see it in their more modern designs, but no luck.

I consider myself a very careful shopper, and I scan the web and literature before I buy, especially on high priced items. I do not put too much faith in Consumer Reports, who go off on tangents like downrating cars because there are not enough drink holders. Their reviews are spotty, at best, and I even find inaccuracies in their reports.

It's real easy to look back > He probably means that it's often worth checking Consumer Reports. For some

Probably not. Their wasn't any information out at the time, and the older style toilets were very hard to find. Lets call it for what it is, the government and these companies screwed us.

Sherwin D.

[sherwindu]

Hi, I installed a new 'kit' on my delta single lever sink faucet. It had been dripping badly, and the kit fixed it. The kit included a new ball, new O rings, new springs and gaskets, and a new large rubber washer that fits under a hard plastic cap which the main chrome screw cap fits over.

However, when I use the water it leaks badly around the chrome ball and socket. Before I turn off the water [its difficult in this house and hard to explain] again and dissassemble, does this type of leak indicate an obvious problem? Do I need to get vice grips and tighten down the chrome ring [which compresses the large rubber washer] more?

thx.

itchy

[sherwindu]

Yes Hillary. I am one of those unfortunate people that were shopping for a toilet just after the government forced us into 1.3 gallon tanks. As I said earlier, I have adjusted my tank float to allow water to fill up to the maximum, before it starts spilling out a relief tube. As I stated earlier, the problem is in the passageway size, not the water volume.

Sherw> Our tank has a regular "old style" capacity, and the 1.3 gallon tub was

[JoeSpareBedroom]

CR began testing toilets about a month after the government issued its edict. They tested them using fake turds made out of oatmeal & peanut butter, or some such thing (described in the articles). I understand that it's considered hip to dislike the organization because they've been (correctly) slamming American cars since the late 1970s, but you only hurt yourself by having this ignorant attitude. You're claiming that because you don't like the way they review one product category, all their other tests are invalid.

What if there was "a lot of testing"? Who else would be doing it, except for Consumer Reports? Do you think Popular Mechanics would invest money in

50 different toilets, just to test them?

For toilets, who *do* you put faith in? You "scan the web". Whose sites do you "scan"?

Please describe one or two such inaccuracies.

[hilary]

Like I said, we bought a 1.3 gallon toilet and modified it to "old style". The toilet tank of our 20 year old "normal" toilet is EXACTLY the same size as the tank on our 1.3 gallon toilet. The only difference was that the new toilet had a 1.3 gallon plastic tub inside the tank which was all that would fill with water. We removed the tub, got a new float, and no more problems. Sorry yours isn't like that. Perhaps because the manufacturer decided it was easier/cheaper to add the tub than to re-tool the factory. Who knows?