No longer worth it to plug in Electric Cars or Plug-In Hybrids in Areas wit High Electricity Costs and Low Gasoline Costs

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Thanks to high electricity prices and low gas prices it now costs less per mile to run our Prius Plug-In on gasoline than on electricity.
Miles per Gallon: 45 Price per Gallon: $3.00 Cost Per Gasoline Mile: 6.67¢      Miles per KWH: 4 Price per KWH: $0.324 (no joke!) Cost Per Electric Mile: 8.10¢
A Tesla is about 0.5 KWH/mile so at the same electricity cost it's far more expensive than a gasoline powered vehicle.
The problem is the high electricity cost in my area. In areas of the country where the electricity cost is half the price then it'd be break-even for the Tesla, and a savings on the Prius. We are not big electricity users since A/C is rarely needed here, and the water heater, furnace, and clothes dryer are natural gas. But we always end up in the top tier for electricity usage ($0.32445/KWH) which starts at 201% over baseline.
The tremendous advantage of a plug-in hybrid, or all-electric, in California, is the carpool lane access with a single person. And due to state and federal tax credits, and factory to buyer incentives, the Prius Plug-In was the same price as the gasoline-only model, and Plug-In came with navigation and several other features. The carpool lane access is really nice even though I don't really agree with the idea that single occupancy vehicles should ever get to use the carpool lane; OTOH, every additional vehicle in the carpool lane means less vehicles in the other lanes so there is some benefit to everyone.
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On 11/4/2014 1:58 PM, SMS wrote:

Assuming all your information is correct, you should spread this observation further. Even with all the subsidies, the Prius costs are spread to the taxpayer who pays for it. Cost to everyone is more for transportation in these vehicles. Same goes for pollution advantage, it is spread elsewhere in the form of the battery production and electricity generated at polluting sites.
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On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:58:00 -0800, SMS

This is true for the moment, but what about the future? Why not set up a solar powered recharging station for your vehicle? Yes, there is the high expense of the solar panels but those panels can also help reduce the household power bill. Expences will constantly rise given time. Going solar now might save a true fortune in the future. BTW, there are small solar panels that can be stuck on the inside of the vehicle window, then plugged into a cigarette lighter to help charge a vehicle battery while parked for the day.
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On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:22:13 PM UTC-5, Vandy Terre wrote:

do the math how many Watt hours can you get from a little solar panel in a typical day? or even a big solar panel for that matter? how many watt hours does it take to recharge a car?
Mark
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On 11/4/2014 2:23 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

The Prius Plug-In requires 3KWH to charge the battery. A fully charged battery provides 12-14 miles of driving. This is actually enough for the spousal-unit's daily commute so during the week this vehicle rarely used any gasoline.
Those little solar panels are not going to make a dent in 3KWH. Plus, the battery packs cars require a minimum of 120VAC to charge, there is no option to charge small packs of cells with a 12VDC charger. It would take 200 hours to charge the Prius Plug-In battery with a 15W charger, assuming no losses. The reality is that it would take about 300 hours.
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On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 3:22:13 PM UTC-5, Vandy Terre wrote:

Great idea. Sink another $45K into a solar array to charge the electric car that's already cost prohibitive. And the only reason that solar electric is marginally practical at all is that it's heavily subsidized by the rest of the poor saps out there so that the hippies can put them in.

Sure sink big $$$ today so that if energy costs more in 2030, you'll be ready. Remember when Jimmy Carter and the experts told us we were running out of oil in the 70's? How well did that work out?

I'm sure that's good for going at least a few blocks.
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On 11/6/2014 7:03 AM, trader_4 wrote:

prohibited domestic drilling, Alaska pipe line, etc. So, the price of oil has gone from .33 when I was a kid, and went over 4.25 for a while, due to supply shortages. I'd like O out, and Sarah Palin for Pres.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The Toyota manual recommends 5000 miles oil changes and not much else for the first 100000. 80000 would be 16 changes. At a little less than 4 quarts of oil and a $6 Swix filter, lets say $20, that does beat $5000 by a lot.
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On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:35:39 -0800, sms

I was under the mistaken impression that batteries did not care what the voltage was. I don't expect a small charger to make a big difference just making use of vehicle being parked in the sun. I would like to see vehicles with solar panels built into the roof such that a charge is added anytime there be sunlight.
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SMS wrote:

Excuse me, Wix. As for synthetic, the owner's manual specifies 5W-30 and does not mention synthetic. The first two years of maintenance may be included, but I do my own work. If you want to use Toyota filters, go for it. I'll use either NAPA Gold or Wix, which are the smae thing.
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I would LOVE to have an electric car, even if it cost more per mile to drive. Unfortunately, the initial cost of an electric car puts them way out of my price range.
I realize I am in the minority, but I drive an old 1976 VW Rabbit.
www.watsondiy.com/rabbit.htm
I bought it used for $850 in 1988 and have spent approximately $8000 on maintenance and repairs since then. I keep a log of my fuel expenses and have spent $9200 on gas since I have owned the car. I get about 25mpg now, but it has been as low as 19mpg when I was having carburetor issues.
So, in 26 years the car has cost me less than $18,000, including the vehicle cost, maintenance, and fuel. That includes a new paint job, and an engine replacement. It currently has about 400,000 miles on it.
At my current rate, I could drive my old car another 26 years and still come out less than the cost of most electric vehicles. Even if I have to rebuild the engine and repaint the car again.
From an environmental aspect, it takes a lot more energy and polution to manufacturer all the steel, plastics, and rubber that make up a new vehicle. The "cash for clunkers" program years ago made no sense to me as a lot more energy and polution would be used to build all those new cars than the better efficiency would provide. Not to mention the energy and waste to recycle the old vehicles.
Cars lose value so quickly I would never buy a brand new vehicle. Every car we have ever purchased has been at least 10 years old, and we've never paid more than $4000 for a vehicle.
Of course, I realize everyone doesn't have the desire or ability to drive an old car (maintenance costs would be MUCH higher if you had to pay shops to do the work). At some point age and rust, or accident damage will force you to buy a newer vehicle. Or, you just might WANT a newer vehicle.
To each their own, but paying $30K and up for a new car to get slightly lower cost per mile just doesn't make sense.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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Per HerHusband:

That is a beautiful story.
Makes me wish I had tried to repair the rusted-out roof on my old Suburban (300k miles) instead of selling it.
--
Pete Cresswell

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Assuming the CfC was environment in nature. It was much more to get people to buy new cars and keep the automakers in business until "real" demand took off again. The pollution stuff was just a bone tossed to certain groups for campaign money (and they actually fell for it!)
--
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
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just like you conservatives to politicize a legitimate question
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remember when gas prices were below $1/gallon? must not be running out of oil
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On 11/06/2014 12:30 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
[snip]

$.90/gallon around here in early 1990, during the gulf war when people expected it to go up.
--
48 days until the winter celebration (Thursday December 25, 2014
12:00:00 AM for 1 day).
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and you'd deserve her
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Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

It's been all downhill since Sunoco 200 made it up to 25 cents a gallon...
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Per Malcom "Mal" Reynolds:

27-cent gas in 1961 was really $2.15 per gallon in 2014 dollars per http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
--
Pete Cresswell

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Per (PeteCresswell):

...and the $1.00 minimum wage I earned at a chicken hatchery during high school (1957) was really $8.47/hour in 2014 dollars.
--
Pete Cresswell

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