No dial tone on Verizon landline, DSL operating normally

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frank1492 wrote:

Uh hu. Ok, so any other devices? Fax machine maybe?

Typically the exact "demarc" point is a modular jack or terminal block mounted to the wall, probably near to where your electrical service panel is. All the phone jacks in your house are wired to this demarc.
The demarc might look like one of these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u112496/nid_or_demarc_before2.jpg
http://flylib.com/books/2/545/1/html/2/images/f27-11.jpg
You have a condition where you're not getting a dial-tone, but your DSL service is still working. Most likely there is a device (phone, fax, answering machine, possibly even the DSL modem itself, or a DSL filter) that is causing an "off-hook" condition. It's like the handset of a phone that's hidden somewhere in your house was lifed off it's cradle and just left like that - off hook.
I don't believe you've said if there is a phone jack at your demarc point. Ideally there should be - the rest of my instructions will assume you have one there.
Your phone service is supplied by 2 wires (typically red and green). You might 4 wires in total coming in from the outside (red, green, black and yellow). Locate the two that are connected to your home's phone wires. Or you might have just two wires (both of them black).
Once you've located the two wires that are connected to your home's phone wires, its only necessary to disconnect one of those wires from your home's phone wiring (but not to the service jack that should be located nearby). This means your DSL modem will also be cut off and you will lose your internet connectivity (but only for as long as this wire is disconnected).
Once you do that (disconnect one wire) you've effectively cut off any problem device from the incoming phone line, and the line should return to an "on-hook" condition. Now at this point you need to have a known, good working phone (how you determine that might be trial and error, or plug it into a friend's or neighbor's house and verify that it works). Take that phone and plug it into the jack at your demarc point (assuming there is one). If there isin't one, if your handy with a screwdriver then you should be able to connect an ordinary phone jack to your incoming phone line, and remember to keep the rest of your home's phone wires disconnected from the incoming line.
Once the known-good working phone is connected to your incoming phone line, lift up the handset and see if you have a dial tone. If you have one, then you've just established that a service call from the phone company is not required, because the problem with with some device in your home - or even with the wiring itself.
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The demarc at my house automatically cuts loose the house when you pull the wire plug out in order to plug a test phone in. Quite simple.
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On 8/13/2011 9:27 AM, Home Guy wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
Why would he need to do all that? Once you pull the modular plug for that line at the NID it is end of story for any premise wiring or devices being the problem.
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George wrote:

I don't recall him saying that all his home phone wires end in a single RJ-11 jack plugged into his demark.
How do you know that he doesn't have this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
as his demark - with a wall-mounted RJ-11 jack wired into it close by as his service or "test" jack?
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Home Guy wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
My NID looks like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_interface_device (the first picture) and is on the outside of my house.
From there, the wires do come into the house and go to something that looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
which is what you posted and I guess is called a demarc.
When I go to the outside of my house and open up the owner side of the NID, and then unplug anything that is plugged into the owner side, everything from the inside of my house is isolated from the incoming phone lines (unless someone miswired the NID and accessed the phone company side of the NID).
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RogerT wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
Look closely at that picture. There is no "jack" by which you can simply unplug your entire home wiring from that terminal block.
Your home wiring is "hard wired" to those binding posts. The only way to disconnect your home wiring from those posts is with a socket or nut-driver (or wire-cutters).
Which is why I keep saying that not everyone has a demarc point to which their entire home phone wiring is connected to via a modular RJ-11 plug that they can simply dis-connect by unplugging the plug.
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On 8/13/2011 11:22 AM, Home Guy wrote:

But their certainly is in the picture of the NID he also included.
If you have a "box" (NID) outside there is always a plug which allows you to easily disconnect your stuff and allows telco access without needing to go inside. That is the entire point of the NID.
His wiring reflects a typical older phone service that terminated on an inside carbon protector block. At some point the telco was doing work there and they did a typical installation of a NID outside while leaving the protector block in place.
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George wrote:

Yes. Roger says he has a box outside his house.
But Roger isin't the guy with the problem that started this thread.

Way too many generalizations in that paragraph.
I could just as easily say that the outside box is secured with tamper-proof screws or bolts and it not easily opened by the average homeowner, and that there's no garantee that there's a modular connector in the box vs just a hard-wired spliced connection to the demarc inside the home.
But regardless - I don't believe the OP (frank1492) mentioned anything about having an outside box.
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On 8/13/2011 2:13 PM, Home Guy wrote:

I will defer to your expert knowledge. What specific features would one expect in a phone NID other than I described (I believe I omitted color)

You could say that but it wouldn't be correct. The whole point of the NID is to define a DEMARC point with ready access for both the telco and the subscriber and always a tool less method to disconnect premise wiring in the form of a modular plug .

You are absolutely correct. The "box" where he noted he checked the connections might have been the litter box...
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Home Guy wrote:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Demarc2.JPG/220px-Demarc2.JPG
I understand what you are saying. Not everyone has the same setup, and the OP may or may not have an NID box on the outside of their house like I was describing. However, the OP wrote, "Have tried phones directly from the box and also no dial tone", so maybe he does have an NID like I do.
But, now that I think about it, I am confusing my houses, and what I wrote above about having an NID on the outside of my house and the wiring then going from there to the inside of my house where there is a hardwired demarc block like the one you described was incorrect. On that house, the wiring does come straight in from the phone company to the hardwired demarc block, with no NID on the outside.
It is on one of my other houses that has an NID like I described on the outside of the house. On THAT house, unplugging the jack from the owner side of the NID does disconnect the whole in-house phone system.
Sorry about the confusion. I actually had two separate phone line problems going on a two different houses, both in almost exactly the same time period a few weeks ago. For one, the problem was an underground cable. For the other the problem was a line problem going from my house to a nearby terminal on a pole. In both cases, I had no dial tone, and in both cases, calling my phone numbers from somewhere else just produced a busy signal. And, in both cases, all I would hear on my phone was a slight hiss but no dialtone. I do not have DSL service at either house so that wasn't a factor as it is in the OP's case.
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frank1492 wrote:

You may have already done this, but the NID (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_interface_device ) has two sections -- one for the owner access, and one for the phone company access. When you open the owner side of the NID, you should be able to unplug all of the plugs and plug a telephone directly in there to see if you get a dial tone. I think you said you already did this.
To be sure that nothing other than the incoming phone lines are connected to the other side -- the phone company side -- you would need to open their side up and look. You probably already did this too, but that is the side where my phone guy recently said that my alarm company had connected the alarm system directly to the incoming phone line. As long as there is nothing from your house (an alarm system DSL wiring, etc.) that is wired directly to the phone company side of the NID, then the test you did of unplugging the plugs and plugging a phone directly into the owner side of the NID to test for a dial tone should be sufficient.
Again, since I think you said you already did all of this anyway, the problem clearly is in the phone lines going from your house back to the phone company.
And, even though when you called the phone company said they ran a test on the line and is shows up fine, you cannot go by that. They recently told me the same thing regarding another house that I own (not the one with underground phone lines that I mentioned before). They told me that the line tests fine and I said that can't be correct because if I call my number from any phone I get a busy signal and there is no one home and no phones are off the hook etc. So, I asked them if they could try actually calling my phone number -- rather than just "running a test on the line" -- and tell me what happens. When they did that, they said I was right, they do get a busy signal -- and since no one is home they said there must be a short or problem in the wiring going to the house. That's what ended up being the problem -- a bad wire going from my house to a nearby junction box on one of their poles.
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RogerT wrote:

I'm sure there is still a large variety of telco wiring and demarcation / connection methods / connectors / jacks / terminal blocks still in place all across US / Canada.
You can't say or assume that any given house has had their demarc updated to reflect the current practice used today for new home hookup.
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frank1492 wrote:

An answer to your problem (or at least a way to get your problem fixed) will be found on the website DSLReports.com.
All manner of teleco and ISP related issues are discussed on that board, with forums devoted to every major telco, cable and satellite provider, and all manner of services (internet, phone, cable tv, IPTV, etc).
Each of the major players has a "direct support" forum, where you can post your problem and only a bona-fide company rep get to read and act on them, and will communicate with you as the problem is worked on.
In your case, you want to go here:
https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect
So go and sign up and get a user-name and password on dslreports.com, and then go and post your service problem in that forum. You'll probably have to post your name, address, and service phone number along with a description of the problem. Only you, and the company rep or technician will be able to read your post - nobody else.
I can tell you that it's legit. You can see by the subject lines the various issues that people are dealing with at the moment.
The tech that deals with your issue will be able to test the line-card in the CO (central switching office) that your house is wired to. He'll be able to run a remote diagnostic on the line card and it will tell him where the problem is.
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Thank you for these details. I have been to this forum and have received several ideas. Verizon has run a line test from the office and tells me nothing is wrong which is puzzling. I will do what you have suggested but am tied up with another matter at the moment. What can the DSLReports tech do that the phone company couldn't?

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frank1492 top-poasted:

Just to clarify something:
The techs that answer the questions posted to the direct forums on dslreports work for the various companies (Verizon, Comcast, ATT, etc). Their normal dayjob is with those companies. They have an arrangement with DSLReports which gives them the ability to read and deal with the issues posted by customers.
I don't know the history of how that arrangement came about, but I can imagine that as DSLreports became popular as the place people went to to discuss cable, telecom and internet issues, and as the various big companies were slow (or still haven't) developed a credible on-line service portal of their own, it became clear that having a presence on dslreports was beneficial to everyone concerned.
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frank1492 wrote:

You didn't say whether you checked for voltage on the negative side??? BUT
If you've disconnected the house and a known-good phone is hooked to the company line and it doesn't work, What are you gonna do to fix it?
All solution sets lead to the phone company.
I wouldn't discount sabotage by the strikers. What better way to end a get Verizon to yield than to have angry customers without service.
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I have an appointment for Ag 20. I'd blame the strike except that I have some sort of problem every year. Beach house, high winds, lots of salt.

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frank1492 wrote:

Which is why the check for -48V is relevant.

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frank1492 wrote:

In addition to what others have said, I just have two things to add in case it helps.
One is, what happens when you call your own number from another phone? Does it sound like it is ringing when you listen on the phone you are calling from? Do you get a busy signal?
And, the second is, do you have an alarm system (or maybe the DSL hookup) that is wired directly to the telephone company side of the D-Mark? The phone company says that nothing is supposed to be connected directly to their side of the D-Mark, but sometimes alarm company installers and others ignore this and do it anyway.
I mention these because I had a phone line problem recently and there was no dial tone. When the phone company came out, they said my alarm system was connected to their side of the D-Mark, which it shouldn't be. However, that was not the problem. Also, in my case, although there was no dial tone, including after doing the same tests you did, when I called my number from another phone I always got a busy signal. It turned out that my problem was in the buried phone line going to the house (we have buried incoming phone lines in my area). They had to call out the "buried cable" guys to fix the problem.
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Thanks Roger! The last people to work on the interface were Verizon techs when they ran a dedicated line to my DSL because I was having speed issues. All was fine for awhile. No alarm guys here. People that call get a busy signal. I will mention again that V did a line test from the office and they said everything was normal.
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