new washer rant

Page 1 of 3  
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno. Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things are computerized ... the old one was not. After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings - it seems like the new washer is programmed <?> to fill very slowly - so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds - occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze ! Has anyone else experienced this ? Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses .. ... hope I'm wrong. John T.
--- ---
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

I've used a high-end LG that's about 6 years old. It fills over several minutes, in incremental steps. Some water goes in, then it starts it's agitation, after awhile some more water goes in, etc. That goes on for maybe 5 mins. So, what you are seeing is likely normal. It's probably to minimize water usage, by sensing how much is actually needed, instead of just putting in a given amount. The wash cycle also takes a lot longer than an old top loader too. If it's working, the clothes get cleaned, IDK why you'd be calling service, it just drives up the cost of products. Did you call their customer service and ask if it's normal?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:55:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

This morning's load got me calling for service. I chose quick-wash then selected heavy load and extra rinse - this resulted in a 28 minute cycle according to the display. After about 12 minutes of wash cycle the clothes were not wet - I even paused & opened the door to check - mostly dry. I closed the door & resumed the wash - it gave one more short fill - washed for about 1 minute - still mostly dry clothes - then started to drain .. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart" features that these machines have - wouldn't you think that water-level might play an important part in the process ? Not to mention that all the extra unnecessary washing time is actually wasting energy and contributing to the premature demise of the machine. If the service tech can get the "dry wash" fill-up time down to 5 minutes or so - fine - 15 minutes is absurd. John T.
--- ---
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/14/2016 10:11 AM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Wait until you get a new dishwasher. They can take 4 hours to save energy.
You really don't need much water to properly clean clothes. We have a top loader and it rotates the tub and sprays water over the clothes. Once wet, the solution is soaking the dirt and getting loose to move off in the rinse cycle. Before you rant, find out if the clothes are getting clean, that is what counts.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm not comparing damp to wet here ... the load was mostly dry = un touched by any amount of H2O - after 12 - 15 minutes of "washing". John T.
--- ---
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:11:44 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

If by mostly dry, you mean that they aren't wet at all, then I'd agree, it sure doesn't sound right. These washers do use very little water, and the clothes aren't soaked, sloppy with water like they would be in an old top loader. But if they are actually dry then they aren't going to get cleaned either.
. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart"

It does, but with all the govt regulations for efficiency, they are being pushed to use the absolute min water they can. I hear you, I'd rather have clean clothes, instead of saving a half gallon of water. But you know what happens when the hippies run things.
I was at a new Whole Foods supermarket that just opened here. They have a hot and cold bar with all kinds of tasty stuff. To hold the food, they have either a paper box or a paper bowl. Both are 100% recycled/recyclable, the box for some peculiar reason is made with corners that are ready to pop apart and turn it into a flat piece. That's annoying, because you keep thinking the box is going to open up on you. First one I grabbed, one corner opened just because of the way I picked it up. But, the best part is that after going through all that, I walk up to pay for it. All I have is the one food box, I even left it open because I was going to eat it right there at one of the provided tables. The checkout person closed the box, then put it into a medium size paper shopping bag! So much for conserving resources.

Another interesting feature of the high-end LG's is that without it connected to power, if you spin the drum and press the display buttons, it will power up the display. Salesman said that was due to the energy recovery motor, which may be true. You could recover the energy from the drum/load as it spins down. How practical that is, IDK, but for sure if you spin the drum without it connected, it will power up the display/controls.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/14/2016 6:49 AM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Newer washers (esp front loaders) use very little water. Instead of "filling" a tub and letting your clothes slosh around in it, they wet the clothes in stages, tossing them around between.
They may also *drain* many times during a wash cycle -- get the dirt out of the fabric and flush it away (instead of letting the clothes sit in "dirty water"). I think our washer actually "looks" at the wash water to decide if it's performed enough of these cycles whereas an older machine would go through a fixed routine, regardless of how dirty the clothes may have (or not!) been.
[One argument against BATHS is that the individual just sits in his own dirty water whereas one taking a shower is constantly having that dirty water flushed away!]
We've also noticed that wash cycles are notably LONGER than with old top-loaders. And, the machine seems to be a bit gentler on the clothes (than the old "central agitator").
[Your user manual will tell you how long a wash cycle should be. Our machine displays time remaining on the front panel. If you are observant, you notice that it lies (and is sometimes done sooner)]
Also, if you have sensitive skin, some of the HE detergents can cause problems -- even in their reduced quantities. You may end up looking for alternatives (and/or, following each wash cycle with a second "rinse only" cycle -- wonderfully inefficient!)
Lastly, most front loaders need a periodic "cleaning cycle". Some require a special cleaner to be added to the cycle (no clothes involved). Others just do this without a special "cleaning product". I think all machines alert you to this requirement when it becomes necessary: "check oil", etc.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.
While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level sensor", not a timer.
The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.
Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption) until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.
3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine, but the pattern is consistent.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's all over, are the clothes clean or not?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

They will be now - I re-washed the whole load - on Normal cycle - default settings - the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle ! .. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze. John T.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

The hour and a half sounds about right. They do take a lot longer. You can probably sell tickets for people that want to watch. It's kind of interesting. The drum doesn't just go one way, it goes one way for awhile, then reverses, slow up, speeds down, water comes in/out, the spin cycle is at turbine like speeds.... Not like the old top loader.
I actually did a test between my 20 year old top loader and the LG, using identical towels with mustard, ketchup, dirt, etc. Used Tide for both, regular for the top loader, the high-eff toploader version of Tide for the LG. The results were that they both did about the same. One was better at some stains, worse at others and vice-versa, so there were differences, but I couldn't say that one did a better job overall than the other. The amount of time it takes can be a factor if you're in a hurry to get something clean, which happens once in awhile.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
trader_4 posted for all of us...

Like your mother told you: Put on clean underwear because you never know if you are going to get in an accident.
I know when I was on the ambulance that was the first thing you did-undie inspection. No need for signs, symptoms or observations; the undies told it all. *NOT* ;~)
You know you are in trouble when they give you the alien anal probe in the ER...
--
Tekkie

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

My longest cycle - Normal cycle, with Heavy dirt level option, extra rinse and extra spin is 58 minutes.
In 1:28, I could wash *and dry* some loads.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/14/2016 9:04 AM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Average household does 7 loads of laundry each week. *If* you do them all on one day AND want to shotgun one right after another (i.e., nervously tapping your foot waiting for the load to finish so you can start the next), then you might have an issue.
We often forget laundry in the machine. I.e., my last load is still in the dryer from a few days ago. When SWMBO goes to do bedding this weekend, I will be "reminded" of this. :>
Still, 1:28 seems long for a "normal" wash. I think our "normal" cycle is 50 minutes and increases to 55 if you indicate "heavy soil". You should also *time* (with a clock) the actual cycle length as the machine is only estimating how long it will take. Your old machine had no choice: tell it X minutes and it WILL take X minutes. New machines look at the water to see how much soil is (still) present.
Also beware that there is usually no real "default" as many machines remember how you ran a cycle and offer those settings to you the next time you run it.
IME, it's been educational to poke at the various buttons to see how each choice affects wash time (ditto for the dryer). Our first load (on a hot wash) always takes a bit longer as the machine "tests" the water temperature before beginning: lets a little water in, checks temperature, drains it if too cool (i.e., water "standing" in the pipes -- even the amount of water in the flexline to the washer is significant when the washer doesn't USE much!) and tries again.
Most owner's guides will also give you a breakdown of each cycle type so you can experiment "on paper" without having to run actual loads.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I asked the repair guy about this - he said that he only knows of dishwashers doing this ... dunno. He checked the hoses for good flow ; then went straight for the pressure switch - and magically had the replacement in his jacket pocket ! :-) A test run with a few pairs of blue jeans seemed better - not sure - next full load will tell .. I'll be watching and timing things if it looks unresolved - it was a good suggestion to not rely on the washer's countdown timer indicator for any accurate measurement. John T.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 4/15/2016 12:33 PM, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

Again, unlike electromechanical controls that work "open loop" (i.e., do not reflect conditions in the load being washed), newer machines sense how well they are performing their jobs.
If things go "exceedingly well", the timer will appear to count "fast" and the load done BEFORE expected. The opposite is also true.
The dryers have similar smarts; silly to dry something for a fixed amount of time *if* you know that it's already dry, halfway through the allotted time!
[I have trouble trying to get the dryer to dry LESS thoroughly as I often want to remove my clothes when they are ALMOST dry and let them finish drying while hanging, etc. Usually cuts down on ironing -- without having to resort to the steam cycle in the dryer!]
Lastly, check to see if you have a "debris filter" in the washer. This catches crud that might be mixed in with your clothing (sort of like a lint filter would in a dryer). In ours, the filter is located literally at the bottom of the appliance. So close to the floor that you can't put a catch pan under it to capture the excess water that WILL come out when you open the filter!
[Anything that would fit under it would have to have an insignificant "lip" -- to squeeze under the washer itself. But, having that shallow of a lip means it's not a very effective *bowl* -- to capture liquids! If this becomes clogged, you will see water/fill/drain related error messages signaled.]
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Today, the only common make of washer that has a reversable door is Electrolux . The $ 2800 Huebsch had the door opening "the wrong way " from every other machine .. John T.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 18:37:49 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

I've heard that Speed Queen makes a good front loader.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 11:53:05 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

Could be a clogged inlet valve, although I think the unit would keep adding water until the level sensor is triggered. However, this logic might be in play:
1 - Add Wate 2 - Rotate drum 3 - If(AND(lev_sens <> 1, cyc_time <15:00) Then GoTo 1 4 - Enter Wash Cycle
In other words, if the level sensor hasn't trigger in 15 minutes, then the heck with the level, let's start washing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message ---
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.