New Shed Wiring

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HI, I just built an 8x12 shed over my well. The well had an existing A frame cover over it. It is 5' x 4' x5'2" deep. Has a jet pump wired straight from main panel at electric pole, 3 wires directly wired to pressure switch. 220 , I think.
Here's the question, is there any way to use the exisisting wiring to supply 110 power to shed? All I'm looking at is a couple of lights, a couple of plugs for minor tool usage.
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With a transformer. Otherwise, you need four wires: two hots and ground (which you have already), and neutral (which you don't).
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Isn't a stove 220? and it gets its 120 from one of the hot legs and the neutral.
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As Doug said, he doesn't have a neutral, just two hot legs and a ground
wrote:

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Yes, of course -- but, as noted, he doesn't *have* a neutral. He has two hots and a ground.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Good Morning,
Can I run just a neutral? Please forgive my ignorance in this area. I've only ever wired (with existing wires) ceiling fans, moved outlets and outside lights.
Doug Miller wrote:

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No. It'd work, but it's against code, and there are some real hazards with it.
You'll have to run a new cable.
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Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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wrote:

I had an old stove in an old house once that had 3 wires to it - two hots and a neutral - no ground. The plug in did not even have a prong for the ground.
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wrote:

So? Notice "old stove" and "old house". That arrangement is not permitted by current electrical codes.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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legally. Running a neutral wire would, if nothing perverse ever happens, be safe; but since code watches out for perverse happenings, it wouldn't be legal.
You might want to check the voltage to be sure. My pump is 120v. Shouldn't be; the voltage drop is murder, but it is.
You could wire up 240v lights, but that wouldn't help you with the tool usage.
And before you do anything; make sure you have adequate capacity to add lights. If you are marginal now, the pump won't like sharing.
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Thanks, I'm positive that the pump is 220. Here's the story, the orignal structure on the property burned to the ground 5 years ago. At the time, the well was wired into the breaker box in the house. When the house went, all power to the well went, no water to fight the fire. So when I had the doublewide set up, I had a friend run the electric straight from the box on the pole to the well. The breaker box has a double pull dedicated to that wire alone. I know the pump at one time was set up for 120 but was switched over when contruction was final. Like an idiot, I let a friend run the wire, thinking he knew what he was doing, I was wrong. So what I now have is a cable with 3 wires buried under the ground to the well, what I want is to be able to put a sub-panel into the shed above the well for lights and outlets. How can I best accomplish this without burying more wire.
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BTW, I'm not real worried about legally, I'm out in the country and didn't need a permit since the structure is under 200sq ft.
Afubar wrote:

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Personally I wouldn't do this, but until the 20 years ago 240v applicance were allowed to put their unbalanced load from 120v uses back over the uninsulated neutral. In fact, the top element on my lower oven puts 10a back over the neutral. That is probably more than you would get from a few lights.
Is it safe? I have never heard of anyone getting hurt on the millions of such installations like that out there; but there is the potential for a problem. Probably safer than driving to the market, but since it is illegal... It is one thing to leave my 24 year old wiring in place; it is quite another to install another one.
I am posting this mainly to get Dougie upset.
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wrote:

Why don't you just crawl back under your bridge, troll? By this time, anybody who's been paying attention in this ng knows better than to take electrical advice from you.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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He did know what he was doing. You had him run a 240V line, and that's what he did. If you wanted 120V too, you needed to tell him that.

You can't. You need a fourth wire, not just for code compliance, but for safety as well.

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Doug Miller wrote:

Could the existing ground wire be converted to a neutral and a new ground rod be sunk at the pump shed?
Chris
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No.
Multiple code and safety violations: - The existing ground conductor is almost certainly uninsulated and therefore unsuitable for use as a neutral. - The ground conductor at the shed would not be tied to the service entrance ground and could therefore be at a different potential. Google on "ground loop" for information regarding the dangers. - This cannot be alleviated by running a separate conductor, either, as the Code requires that all circuit conductors be contained within the same cable or raceway.
The only safe and Code-compliant option I can see for the OP is to convert the circuit back to 120V to provide neutral and ground for the lights and outlets he wants, and either use a step-up transformer to provide 240V for the pump, or convert the pump back to 120V as he says it was originally.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Valid point.

Around here (Saskatchewan) separate buildings are allowed to have their own ground rods and a ground line is not required to be brought with the feeders (although it is allowed to omit the ground rod and bring ground in with the feeder lines, as long as the building doesn't house livestock).
Looking at the online 2005 NEC, 250.32 B(2) seems to discuss this case, in that it describes what to do with the "grounded conductor" when a "grounding conductor" is not brought along with the supply. Am I missing something here?
Chris
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Hang on, before you guys get all upset, from what I can tell, what he buried was romex. Nothing fancy or special. And it's not the first time this guy has acted like he knew what he was doing, I've had him mess up an older motorhome I was remodeling as well, I wound up re doing that, not to mention a few other things. I'm not blaming him, I just should have known better and tried to do it myself. And for the books, I'm a 53 year old female. I often don't know the correct name for things, but I'm not afraid to try. I've changed the alternator in my car, it involved lowering the cardle and pulling a tie rod end, I've built a deck that is 10sf less than my house, remodeled a bath, installing a large garden tub, and last but not least, I put in a french door from my bedroom out onto the deck. So, Please, I'm willing to learn, teach me.
Thanks Kaye
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If it was romex, then you really should pull it out and have it redone properly. Romex is neither permitted, nor safe, for underground use. You need Type UF (Underground Feeder) cable for this application.
[snip]

OK, well -- you need a 4-wire UF cable, sized to the total load, and an appropriate double-pole circuit breaker. Or bury a conduit, and pull four THHN or THWN wires of the appropriate size.
One way or another, you need four wires.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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