New oil furnaces

[Liza J. Rhoads]

First a little flattery: This newsgroup is one of the best & most helpful. Your help a few years ago re wiring did me a real service. Please don't give up because of all the garbage you've been bombarded with lately. This too shall pass..

Now. My old. old gravity flow oil furnace, which I dearly love, has finally seen it's last days. Repair parts no longer available for the motor. Yes, it's that old. FYI, in case that is only true in my area (Portland,OR), the motor is :

Williams Hi Pressure oil burner Model "A"' Ser.# 79489, CD-21839

Tech (who I trust but...) can't find new replacement & parts not available. I'll have to keep on pushing those red buttons 'til problem resolved. I like oil heat and, with the price of all fuel so high, extra cost if any is of no concern. And no, gas is not an alternative.

I'm considering a new oil fired furnace to run on bio-diesel. Ideally a dual fuel oil/electric. Is such a thing made? Haven't asked my tech. And, if made, do you have any reccommendations.. Same request for which company makes a good unit.

The old monster was converted from wood? coal? before my time & has the old "octopus" vent & cold air return pipes asbestos wrapped which I can remove myself. No need for the NASA crew. Probably not suitable for a new unit so this won't be a cheap install.

Have read in here about some kind of "Schedule ?" that should be done for best results. Refresh my memory.

OK. Talk amongst yourselves. I have to switch users to access this group so if you have ??? please feel free to email. Address is good. I'll take my chances on the spam. Now be nice & put up with this Webtv'er. Works for me.

Breathlessly awaiting. "Liza

"Life is short. Eat chocolate"

[Doug]

I've seen similar furnaces and their fireboxes and heat exchangers do indeed seem to last forever.

Keep in mind that if the firebox can take it, you can install a complete, new design "flame retention" burner to replace that old Williams burner. I'd go with a standard Becket or Wayne burner. You'd probably gain a good 10 to 15% in efficiency by such a burner changover.

I mention "if the firebox can take it" since the newer flame retention burners run with flame temps several 100 degrees hotter than the old non-retention "J" pump burners. The hotter temps can erode the firebox liner. If your firebox is lined with firebrick, there is little to worry about. Ask your tech.

BTW, what did your tech say you needed for the old "motor"? By "motor" I think you mean the burner assembly.

I've been able to get virtually all parts for those old burners including the actual 1725 RPM motor, the electrodes, the ignition transformer, the oil pump, etc. The only thing that I couldn't get for an old Monarch burner was a new end cone. I ended up adapting the end cone from a 1725 RPM Becket flame retention burner and the result worked fine for several years.

Doug

[Clark]

[e-mail] (Liza J. Rhoads) wrote in news:17018-4758CD1A-44 @storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net:

[snip]

Chocolate can cure many evils...

Those old conversion units have horrible efficiency. If you are spending any kind of money at all for annual heating costs (say > 1,000/yr) then replacing the entire unit is probably a good economic decision.

A new furnace will probably cut your annual heating costs in half. The major benefit is efficient heat transfer but a new furnace should include outside air supply so the furnace isn't burning warm air while drawing cold air into the home. A final consideration is a new furnace will be safer in terms of reduced risk of CO poisoning. I'd say it's a darn good time to make a change...

Obviously you're reasonably happy with oil. A couple other options would be propane or heat pump. The gas (propane) fired furnaces can offer very high efficiency but they get expensive. If you want AC then the heat pump may be a good option since Portland is fairly mild in the winter. If you don't want AC then forget I mentioned it. It can't hurt to go over your options and costs with a good HVAC company or two or three.

If you haven't done so already this is also a good time to look at insulation and air infiltration.

[Liza J. Rhoads]

Thanks Doug. Excellent reply & I'll try to answer without messing up too much. Webtv can "smallify" but this dummy can't figger it. OP (Lots sipped)

-------------------------------------------------------- My old. old gravity flow oil furnace, which I dearly love, has finally seen it's last days. Repair parts no longer available for the motor. Yes, it's that old. FYI, in case that is only true in my area (Portland,OR), the motor is : Williams Hi Pressure oil burner Model "A"' Ser.# 79489, CD-21839 Tech (who I trust but...) can't find new replacement & parts not available. I'll have to keep on pushing those red buttons 'til problem resolved. I like oil heat and, with the price of all fuel so high, extra cost if any is of no concern. And no, gas is not an alternative.

I'm considering a new oil fired furnace to run on bio-diesel. Ideally a dual fuel oil/electric. Is such a thing made? Haven't asked my tech. And, if made, do you have any reccommendations.. Same request for which company makes a good unit. (snip) Have read in here about some kind of "Schedule ?" that should be done for best results. Refresh my memory.

------------------------------------------------------ (Doug) I've seen similar furnaces and their fireboxes and heat exchangers do indeed seem to last forever. Keep in mind that if the firebox can take it, you can install a complete, new design "flame retention" burner to replace that old Williams burner. I'd go with a standard Becket or Wayne burner. You'd probably gain a good 10 to 15% in efficiency by such a burner changover.

--------------------------------------------------------- Tech mentioned some kind of new burner. Will show him your advice. BTW furnace itself is Williams Oil-O- Matic circa late 1920's converted once from gas to "hard fuel" (coal,wood?) then later to oil.

--------------------------------------------------------- (Doug) I mention "if the firebox can take it" since the newer flame retention burners run with flame temps several 100 degrees hotter than the old non-retention "J" pump burners. The hotter temps can erode the firebox liner. If your firebox is lined with firebrick, there is little to worry about. Ask your tech.

------------------------------------------------------ Will do. Looked in & there is a ring of reddish material around the big hole in the bottom. Could be deteriorated brick.

---------------------------------------------------------- BTW, what did your tech say you needed for the old "motor"? By "motor" I think you mean the burner assembly.

-------------------------------------------------------- I, maybe mistakenly, called it a motor. It sits outside, & pumps oil to, the furnace.

-------------------------------------------------------- (Doug) I've been able to get virtually all parts for those old burners including the actual 1725 RPM motor, the electrodes, the ignition transformer, the oil pump, etc. The only thing that I couldn't get for an old Monarch burner was a new end cone. I ended up adapting the end cone from a 1725 RPM Becket flame retention burner and the result worked fine for several years. Doug

---------------------------------------------------------- Great advice! Will show this to my tech and see what he says. Really hate to junk the old beast for new. Don't like forced air heat. Later, 'Liza

"Life is short. Eat chocolate"

[Liza J. Rhoads]

Clark responded:

Chocolate can cure many evils...(Right!) Those old conversion units have horrible efficiency. If you are spending any kind of money at all for annual heating costs (say > 1,000/yr) then replacing the entire unit is probably a good economic decision.

----------------------------------------------------- Clark I'm totally aware of efficiency, etc., Just don't like forced air heat. Do like the comfort of oil heat and this old unit keeps my basement nice & cozy which keeps the upper floor warm. All new radiant floor heat would be financially out of the question and wouldn't keep the basement warm. Not your suggestion I know, just saying. Same applies to EBB except for cost. Considered that,

---------------------------------------------------- (Clark) A new furnace will probably cut your annual heating costs in half. The major benefit is efficient heat transfer but a new furnace should include outside air supply so the furnace isn't burning warm air while drawing cold air into the home. A final consideration is a new furnace will be safer in terms of reduced risk of CO poisoning. I'd say it's a darn good time to make a change... Obviously you're reasonably happy with oil. A couple other options would be propane or heat pump. The gas (propane) fired furnaces can offer very high efficiency but they get expensive. If you want AC then the heat pump may be a good option since Portland is fairly mild in the winter. If you don't want AC then forget I mentioned it. It can't hurt to go over your options and costs with a good HVAC company or two or three.

If you haven't done so already this is also a good time to look at insulation and air infiltration.

------------------------------------------------------ Thanks Clark & all good advice. Not going into this uneducated which is why I'm picking brains here. Off to bed now so will return after tech is here manana or Sat to reinstall old "motor" or whatever it's called. Thx again. 'Liza

--

[hallerb]

no doubt a new furnace will save you money in operating expense.

but just about ANY motor in the world can be purchased at WWGrainger. it may not be the original motor but a new substitute.

recently grainger changed their motor supplier and obsoleted all the old dayton motor parts

[Liza J. Rhoads]

Saturday morning: Tech re-installed old motor to tide me over but will install new motor (yes, it is the motor), and do a new motor/fire box "flame retention" replacement later next week. Box is fire brick lined. This is what he planned to do. I just didn't understand this procedure before.

I appreciate all the good advice & suggestions you all have given. May be back in a few years for more help. Happy Holidays !! 'Liza

"Life is short. Eat chocolate"