New hot water tank in july, what is fair?

[bob haller]

I am proud I am a effective complainer and rarely lose a issue.....

If more people complained loudly customer service would improve dramatically.......

[Ed Pawlowski]

Correct, there is an art to successful complaining. You have to be calm, speak with authority, not yell and scream. Lay out the facts and suggest what the proper resolution should be.

You have to realize that the person you are talking to probably had nothing to do with the problem so don't take your frustration out on them. Allow them to help you.

OTOH, it may be the person you are talking to. Don't call them a twit until you get the resolution you want or get to a manager that can be of help.

Smart companies realize good customer service is important and they empower people to fix your problem. It makes for happy customers and repeat business. Companies that don't do it do not deserve your business.

[Moe DeLoughan]

So the store manager will shortly be losing his or her job.

Since the store manager is shortly going to be unemployed, I doubt s/he will much care.

Sears was bought out by a hedge fund guy who combined them with Kmart into a holdings company. He has absolutely zero interest in growing retail operations. He's taking what profits he's getting from them (Kmart is doing extremely well) and putting it into his other investments. He took the Craftsman and Kenmore brands and spun them off into a separate company, so that he'll continue to hold ownership of those valuable brands even after Sears ceases to be. In the meantime, he's licensed the sale of those branded products to other retailers, which further hurts Sears' bottom line.

The long and short of it is: the head honcho isn't interested in making Sears better or keeping its dwindling customer base satisfied. The people working under him suffer serious morale issues as a result (not to mention knowing their jobs are gradually going away, as in the case of the PA store manager). Some of them still strive to provide good customer service - but if doing so costs the store money, they will face repercussions from upper management. Others know they can get away with providing poor customer service, so they have no guilt about doing so.

I've got a sister in Sears management who has been with them for over thirty years. When a customer comes to her with a complaint, she'll do what she can, but often she can't do much more without putting her job on the line, and that's a line she won't cross. In those cases, the customer usually threatens to contact the head office in Chicago. She encourages them to do so. You may want to try that, because the store manager may not have the power (anymore) to make things right.

[trader4]

Agree with most of what you're saying with a coupe of exceptions. I don't believe Kmart is doing extremely well. It's not doing very well at all. It's just that it's been somewhat profitable, while Sears is far worse.

And it's not entirely owned by the hedge fund. It's publically traded and the hedge fund holds just over

50% of it, they do control how it's run.

The Kmart here is a real mess. I rarely go there, even though it's close. They always have long lines at the checkouts. I was there last Xmas and the cash register system, which the cashier told me was 25 years old, was having serious problems. The system sure looked at least 25 years old. After waiting in line for 10 mins, they finally decided they had to reboot the whole system. And get this. They then have to bring up each register one at a time, a process that we were told would take at least a half hour. And then I had to suggest to the manager, "How about if you give us bags to put our stuff in and we can leave it and come back later to pay for it?" Once I did that, most people took the leave the bag option. I've seen the cash register problem on a couple other occasions too.

I hate Kmart soooo very much!

and putting it into his other

[Ed Pawlowski]

The K Mart in our town never has long lines. They can barely get enough people in there to make a short line. The only reason I ever go there is to buy something I know is "name brand" quality, not cheap China crap that most of their merchandise is. The advantage is, the Wal Mart parking lot will be mobbed, the K Mart lot and store is empty so quick in and out.

[Josh]

I moved from the east coast to a Northern California town 19 years ago that had a 5-6 year old Walmart and a brand new Kmart across the street. Having grown up with Kmart (Walmart hadn't gotten to New England at the time), I of course tried going there. It was big and bright and seemed like there were never more than 20 people in the store...and always 10 people in the checkout lines, with never more than 2 open. I found that I could get in and out of Walmart much quicker, so went there. Apparently so did everyone else, as the Kmart is long gone, replaced by Kohls (which is doing well).

Of course, back east, it was the Caldor (yes, dating myself) nearby that was ultra slow (it seemed like every clothing item required them to enter at least 2 15 digit numbers by hand, plus the time to de-hangar and fold), with Kmart being the faster option...

Josh

[gregz]

I get my prescriptions at kmart, as well as most of my clothing. Never really crowded. Also often get pizza in the store store. I don't think there is any food at my walmart. I learned to like the old walmart, and quickly learned to hate the new. BUT, I bought a 120 ahr battery at walmart, and equivalent at kmart cost $140 vs walmart $90.

Greg

[gregz]

I hate walmart inconsistency. They carry stuff. I shopped at walmart and all they had were gas containers. Kmart had water, diesel, kerosene, gas. Stuff you should carry, vs stuff they want to carry.

Greg

[clare]

What I dislike most about the big "W" is they will target a product and guarantee nobody will undersell them - so soon the only place to buy it is at the big "W". A short time later, they find they are loosing too much money on it - or the supplier finds they cannot afford to supply it at the price the big "W" will pay them for it - so it is no longer supplied - and it is no longer available in the genereal markrtplace.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The suppliers make dumb decisions too. Vlasic pickles

versus Snapper mower

[clare]

to say no.

Everyone's used to buying, say, Vlasic pickles for $.79 when the realistic price is $139, and it's hard to build a market outside of Walmart at even a bargan $129 - what's a company going to do???

[bob haller]

1/3 of all suppliers to wall mart go bankrupt in a matter of years.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I don't blame Wal Mart, all Vlasic had to do was say "no" and refuse to sell at a lower price.

A few years back, one of our biggest customers was Frigidaire. They use similar tactics on their suppliers. The parts we made for them were seasonal. After year one, we were asked for a 10% price reduction. Their logic was that over the year, we found better and faster ways to make their parts. There is some truth to that and we wee able to reduce the price and maintain profits. A couple of years later, they sent a letter and asked for a 25% reduction, a rebate for the previous year, and longer terms. We said "no thanks, where do you want the tools sent?".

One of our competitors happily snatched the job from us at the reduced price. Years later, we are still making a profit, they filed bankruptcy. The Frigidaire business is long gone as they moved the plant to Mexico the following year.

More recently, we make a product for a customer that potentially sells to Wal Mart. We sell it for 1.10. WM said they would buy it at 85¢. Again, we said no. Would have been a big order, but with no profit and we would have had to skimp on material.

[trader4]

That's what I was talking about too. It's not that the Kmar here is real busy either. It's just that they have 10 checkout lines and only 2 or three are open and they have lines.

Somehow this one here still survives.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Either 2/3 make more money than they ever dreamed of-- or that's just a bullshit number you pulled out of thin air.

I do note that you don't say how many years-- so perhaps 90% of your

1/3 haven't gone bankrupt yet, but they will? [and it will be Walmart's fault?]

Walmart may be a bully, but if they were driving one in 3 businesses to bankruptcy, then why would any business sign on with them? And if they did-- isn't that what the whole free market is about?

Jim

[trader4]

Also right in the article it says no one says the gallon pickle issue was a critical factor in the bankruptcy.

I found this from a story at the time of their bankruptcy filing:

"They were dealt a difficult hand," said Mitchell Pinheiro, an analyst at Janney Montgomery Scott who has a "hold" rating on Vlasic stock.

"They were saddled with $500 million debt, which didn't seem all that onerous at the time [Vlasic was spun off], given cash flow. But the cash flow was deteriorating and the need of the brands was greater than first thought."

Vlasic listed $458.3 million in assets and $649.9 million in debts in its Chapter 11 petition filed in U.S. District Court in Wilmington."

And the story starts off implying Walmart is responsible for clothing manufacturing going overseas. We all know that trend was already well under way as far back as the

60's, with places like New England having them close right and left. That was long before Walmart was a factor. Digital Eqpt, the computer company, started in an old abandoned textile mill in the 60's. I see this whole thing as more of an evolving world economy, than the evil of one giant retailer.

[krw]

I found that tactic to be extremely effective when airlines screw up. When I was flying to the left coast regularly I managed to snag a free upgrade to first class on one leg of the flight on almost every trip. If *anything* went wrong I just asked if they'd comp me an upgrade. Since something almost always goes wrong somewhere, it became a regular thing. Others, usually whiny, demanding, liberals, were lucky to get a seat at all. Once I did have to fly through Chicago to get from NC to VT but the ORD=BTV connection was 1st class. The FA apologized for not getting me a 1st class seat on the RDH-ORD leg. ;-)

[krw]

You're being kind to Sears. The Store where I lived just closed and there isn't one in this corner of Atlanta at all (there is one about

20mi. North, but it's a PITA to get to). I did buy a Sears lawn tractor last Spring because it was a much better deal than anything else around. We'll see if I can get parts for it for the time I own it.

I don't remember the last time I was in a KMart. It must be fifteen years back.

[krw]

Walmart has water containers but in the kitchen/home section, not in the automotive section. ?!?

[gregz]

Ok, but I did ask someone there.

If for some reason I need to go in and get cleaner, I need to go 1/2 mile to other end in groceries, instead of hardware. No sense.

Let's see. Bought bed at sears this year and got glasses. Top rated in eyeglasses. Has nice bed section you can actually lay in many beds to test. Some stores you can't do this. Good price with sale prices. I just don't want o loose sears.

A few years ago my kmart burnt down. I was really surprised they rebuilt, but was probably insurance covered. With walmart, SAMs, target, Costco, kmart suffers, as well as our mall. Mist malls are suffering. Still got two two of the best stores, sears and macy's, for looking around. Oh, penny's too, but I just don't go there anymore.

Greg