New AC System in Va

[komobu]

Hi;

Need a new AC system in my house in Va. I am in the US Military and currently live in Korea.

An AC Contractor is quoting me $5780 to replace my residential AC / Furnace with the following 3 ton unit: Model 38BRC036 3ton R-22 a/c unit 12SEER CD5AXW036021 EVAPORATOR COIL MODEL 58STA110 GAS FURNACE, WITH A 20 YR HEAT EXCHANGER WARRANTY, INSTALLED PRICE $5780.00

I have seen a 13 SEER Goodman Dual Fuel heat pumps with a 90K 93% Gas Furnace on the internet for 2350. I am debating whether I should fly back to Va and do the job myself. If I fly back to Va, it will cost me roughly 900 for the flight and I can stay with family. Thus I would be saving over 2500 dollars and I would be getting a higher seer unit with a 2 stage variable speed compressor.

Some of the questions I have are these:

1) How much of the 5780 that the contractor is quoting is equipment and how much is actual labor / mark ups? It would be bennificial for me to pay to have the job done if the total labor cost was less than $2,000. 2) How intensive is an AC Install? (I am a Sheetmetal worker by trade.) I am thinking that I put the condensor in place, the furnace in place, and hook up a few electrical connections. I then sweat / bolt the refrigerent lines and call out an AC Shop to verify all conections, vacume the lines and turn it on. 3) If I call out an AC Shop to verify the install, I would think that I could get them to verify the system install for less than a couple hundred. Is this true?

Some Background. I am a Sheetmetal worker by trade. I have a Universal License in Air Conditioning. I even taught automotive AC Systems for a local community college. I have never worked on any residential HVAC systems. I am a very serious do-it-yourselfer. I have built additions on houses. I have even completey removed and replaced an entire house electrical system.

The interesting thing about this whole thing is that for the last three years I have been talking about going to school and getting into the residential HVAC bussiness when I return to the states. I could actually use this project as part of my education!

I am open to any advice and would appreciate any feedback.

Pat

[Dr. Hardcrab]

Do yourself a favor: Get at LEAST 3 quotes (not estimates) and go with a quality installer.

I personally would stay away from Goodman.......

[CBHVAC]

And NO warranty...none...ever...it breaks cause you installed it wrong, its over..buy another one. Thats in goodmans warranty BTW.

Oh...and thats a hell of a lot more than a legit contractor can get that crap for.

Ask your contractor. I get called lowball by alot of guys, and im not even.

I wont even touch a homeowner installed unit.

Not with a legitimate contractor.

Im in NC, and IIRC, VA has gone to a licence system close to ours....meaning, a homeowner legally cant install a unit.

[Rush Limballs]

[Stretch]

Bullshit yourself. Builders use Goodman because it is cheap. Period. It is also a POS, but better (less bad?), than it used to be. Still a POS.

Stretch

[Stormin Mormon]

I'd suggest to get the HVAC company lined up before you start the work. Most HVAC companies won't touch a system that someone else started, they want to do the entire job.

As for myself, I've been doing HVAC installs for the last five years. Even these years later, I'm really amazed at how many details there are to know, do, parts to stock, and so on. In any case, please let us know how things turn out.

From those numbers, I'm not sure what brand of equipment the HVAC shop is suggesting. And if I did, I don't quote wholesale costs in a public forum.

[Brian]

About $2400 parts, rest ....

No one can tell you if this is good quote or bad. If ducts to be redone

large number of transitions, etc...

If not, I would not pay over $3600.

[CBHVAC]

No...he wont have a warranty...but then, if you would take the time to read the new one..you would know that.

So..you are the one full of bullshit. Sorry...

Goodman just got sold again to another POS builder. They are still garbage when compared to big three unit. I personally LOVE them. They make us more money than all the other lines combined in repair costs.

What kills me is when we get called on a warranty call, and ask for the installation paperwork and look at the price paid..and think..GOD, I could have installed a York Affinity or a Trane XL91i for less. But then, if we had, we would not be out there replacing a part that costs a service call, NOT covered under warranty, on a unit WE didnt install, and on a damn Goodman...ever look at those POS? Nothing to em... I got 5 from last week, out back..you can have the damn things. I have one that we are taking off a home Monday, thats been in for 5 months...its still under warranty, and all I plan on doing is saving it for someone that just cant afford anything else and giving them the damn thing.

Oh...from Goodmans (to use your words, Bullshit warranty) warranty page:

Neither warranty continues after the product is removed from the

location where it was originally installed.

Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman

on, any product ordered over the Internet.

Regardless of time of registration, the warranty period begins on the

date of the original installation. If that date cannot be verified, the

warranty period begins three months after the month of manufacture

(indicated by the first four digits of the serial number (yymm)).

As its only responsibility, and your only remedy, Goodman will furnish

(i) a replacement part, without charge for the part only, to replace any

part that is found to be defective due to workmanship or materials

under normal use and maintenance, or (ii) for a heat exchanger that

is covered by the lifetime warranty and that fails in the first 10 years,

a new, equivalent furnace. For warranty credit, the defective part

must be returned to a Goodman heating and air conditioning products

distributor by a state certified or licensed contractor.

Boy that sucks dont it? Not only are they getting smart about the internet stuff, but they now require a contractor to bring the parts in....wow.... So...sorry, I know it sucks to be proven wrong like that, and it wasnt my intent for you to go postal like that, but ya know, when its your damn job to know whats going on, and it is indeed mine, you know these things. We dont even start working on one till we see the original bill of sale now. Cant produce one? We call Houston, find out what supplier it was sold to, and find out if it was shipped to a state certified reseller that isnt internet based.....we dont, and we dont get paid for anything we return under warranty. You DO realize that if we take in a compressor say....under warranty, and its toast, WE have to pay for it until they verify that its bad, (takes up to 3 weeks) and that it wasnt sold over the net....if it was, you eat it...you being the contractor. Since I dont sell Goodman, but will work on them under warranty cause they are always down, YOUR compressor, *I* wont eat.

And for the record, most of our homes in new construction, get Yorks, or Tranes..the local building contractors are getting tired of junk on their homes. Good for me, bad for the local slap in a Goodman in a half million dollar home guy.

[Bubba]

[CBHVAC]

"Bubba >" Bullshit yourself. NO WARRANTY whatsoever when a Goodman is purchased

What I love about Goodman.

Heat pump fan delays Heat pump electric strip sequencers GE capacitors GE blower motors GE condensor unit motors Crapman compressors Sell to anyone attitude CHEAP ass cabinets CHEAPER basic thermostats Defrost boards Fan delay boards on 12 SEER and up heat pump AH and ANY of the new suck ass GE VS motor stuff they are using. Oh..almost forgot...rubber end caps on the old heat exchangers that fell out.

yea...its what I want in my home....NOT.

People...seriously...you can do what you want, and while it will work like it should till it breaks..work on em for a living, and you find out what a deal you didnit get. I can tell you this...most legitimate contractors, will keep a supply of Goodman replacement parts, like the sequencers, caps, motors and boards on the vans...cause most of the time in an area where a Goodman hack..err..contractor is working, THATS what you are gonna be putting in. And yes..even with warranty, the moneys not bad.

[WM]

Goodmans are great values. They sell millions of them and the quality is about the same as the others.

If you request quotes on an installed goodman, you can get it installed by a professional for less than $3600.

[CBHVAC]

God..I hope so, since the total value wholesale of Goodman crap in the same stuff he needs is WAY under $1200 Yea..Goodmans a GREAT value...you get what you pay for....in this case. Hyundai was a great value in 86 too....LOL

[komobu]

"> No one can tell you if this is good quote or bad. If ducts to be redone

No duct work involved. Contractor said he would use the existing ones. I believe the model is a Carrier system based on the part number he quoted.

[m Ransley]

Read a Consumer Reports poll of 35000 over 5 years on Furnace Reliability. All the manufacturers were within 5% or so of each other except Goodymans , they took an overall outstanding LAST place by a undeniably wide margin. If their quality has changed as some say how can you know for 10 years till another poll is taken, you can`t. Repairmen here love them they say, because they repair for a living. Salesman love them because they are the cheapest and can underbid anything. I wont buy one, nobody informed will.

[Dr. Hardcrab]

"CBHVAC" wrote

For a while there, Goodman was offering a lifetime warranty on their compressors (to the original owner) on their 14 SEER and above units. Now someone told me they stopped doing that. What happened? I thought that was their big selling point to try and get the contractors back. Are they still selling them to anyone off the street or is some middle man (with a legitimate license) buying them up and selling them on the internet?

We installed a furnce and A/C in a customer's house (not a Goodman) and her son stopped by and said he had a heat pump he bought and wanted to know if we would install it. He said it was a 14 SEER Goodman he bought from a company in Florida. (FLORIDA???!!) He was in a hurry to have it installed but he didn't even have the equipment yet. I told him to call us when it comes in and I would talk to someone in the office about installing it. Normally I would say no but since it's the son of one of our regular customers, I would consider it. Well he called and said that a truck dropped it off and there was a bunch of dents in the condensing unit. He had noticed it AFTER the truck left and he went through the whole story of how he called the trucking company and had them come all the way back to his house (the truck had been gone for a couple hours already) because he was a lawyer and he was going to cause a lot of stink if they DIDN'T come back. Anyway, he said he would call when the new unit was received. In the meantime, he had us come back out to his mother's house to "correct" some things that had nothing to do with our install. I went out with the service guy on one of the calls and even his mother couldn't understand why he had us come back out (this time it was the water pipes making a noise and had nothing to do with the furnace or A/C).

Hmmmm.......lawyer. And a pain in the ass one at that....

We won't be installing THAT system. Maybe he can call Goodman and have them suggest someone......

[Bubba]

Oh my gawd yer killin me. One blanket price for any install anywhere in the US. I love it. Your so stupid. Honestly though, I do like your idea. I wish everyone in America signed up for one of those deals. If you can manage it, please let me know first because Im going to have to purchase a warehouse to stock all the parts Im going to be replacing. Im goina be rich. Bubba

[GARY]

But, they sell 5000 or more per day.