New a new refrigerator - any recommendations?

[The Daring Dufas]

A KISS fridge? 8-)

TDD

[Robert Green]

We'll see. Eventually fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly and people got to sell their houses and move. I'm surprised it's stayed flat for so long but as I recall, it was an insane seller's market in 2007 and now its an insane buyer's market. The pendulum has to swing back at some point, and when it does, I think it will be surprising how fast it moves. The problem is that psychologically, everyone wants to either capture the false appreciation that the bubble caused when they sell and not pay for someone else's false appreciation when they buy. But houses in my neighbor have started to sell - at about half the price of their highest during the boom.

Staying home is hard work. I miss the lunches out, the camaraderie, the bigger paycheck and lots of other things. I don't miss the god-awful commute and I've found that I make much more of a mess when I am home that I ever did working. Somehow more projects get started than ever get finished. Speaking of which, I signed on to get refrigerator advice, so . . .

-- Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

That's a good idea. I'll check Google to see if I've got such a place. My wife's pretty adamant about not getting a refurb so I might either have to fix what we have or go for a new one.

My Westinghouse is over 35 years old and I've kept it going, but now I think it has a coolant leak and that's going to be hard for me to deal with with a bum knee (well, two, but one's much worse than the other - my wife calls them the bad knee and the very, very bad knee).

Ahoy, Chief! That's good to know. I was thinking of Lowes. I'll have make sure to bring my ID.

While O6's and above would never admit it, the Navy only works because the chiefs keep it running. What was your rating? E8? I have to admit, I had a hard time keeping all the ratings and ranks in order, and just when I thought I had it down, I got an exchange assignment where I had to learn foreign ratings and ranks. Somewhere, tucked away in an attic carton, I have my insignia flash cards.

In another thread (about BP) I mentioned how in the Navy, if a captain runs his ship aground, he's out. While that sometimes is a bad thing (hard to get people willing to command experimental craft like my dad designed) on the whole, it makes the man at the top responsible for anything that goes wrong and give him a great incentive to make sure nothing does. What's your view?

At the Pentagon I didn't get to talk to many enlisted personnel. You can't spit without hitting an O5 or above. It was always great to watch a phone colonel come in from afar for his first Pentagon assignment. They usually come from a place where they were in total command and the biggest of the big cheeses but at the Pentagon they found themselves getting coffee for the full colonels and generals that littered the place. Or worse yet one of the million Assistant Undersecretary of Some Arcane Field of Defense civilians roaming the halls.

I have a great Bupers/New Orleans story that I probably shouldn't tell on line. Let's just say that the Navy has its own way of doing things and they were damned if they were going to change their systems to match the other services even though it was so ordained by the SecDef himself. I'll bet you have stories to tell. with 26 years in. And more stripes and stars than a tiger getting loose at the Academy Awards.

Here's a joke about nasal radiators:

How do you know if there's a Navy pilot at your fourth of July picnic?

He'll tell you.

And another about Ensigns:

What's the difference between a roomful of puppies and a room full of Ensigns?

The puppies will stop whining eventually.

What's this got to do with refrigerators? (-:

I've got a buddy coming over and we're going to take one last look at whether the old beast can be salvaged. It's gotten new gaskets, new shelves, new fans, new door handle, door railing, and even added another bulb and socket because it was dim inside and the wiring was already there for it - on the deluxe models I assume.

I even cut a little hole in the freezer floor with a Dremel to see if the coils had frozen over. That was the biggest issue with this box. A door left ajar froze the coils. A plug in the drain line froze the coils, too. I believe that the last time I defrosted the coils, I either cracked a solder joint or put a pinhole leak in the coils. When it's working I can feel/hear a lot more gurgling in the freezer coils than I used to.

But it's old with an old motor that's way less efficient than modern compressor motors so there would be a payback in fixing it or finding someone to recharge it and repair the leaks. Decisions, decisions. The unit fails to keep up on hot days (we've gone green - or should I say stinky) and turned off the central air, keeping only the bedroom cool with a small window unit. So far, much cheaper - almost 1/4 the cost of the CAC, but our central unit is an old, poorly installed inefficient SOB. It almost works except for cooking. Even with a summer salad menu, it gets nasty. I might have to put a second unit in the kitchen window for occasional use.

-- Bobby G.

[krw]

Indeed. I propose that we won't like what we see.

Not so much. People won't be trading up, or down. A few will be forced to move for work. Most will not.

It happened that way in the early '80s, but only after Reagan/Volcker finally killed inflation. We haven't yet seen the inflation that *must* follow this bunch of drunken sailors.

Often they *can't*. When you're upside-down money has a way of controlling you.

That's certainly dependant on location. That's certainly true for many areas that saw the greatest appreciation. Corrections are like that.

My commute was only five miles, but yes, I busted my butt when I retired. Well, I got sick for a couple of months, but then finished all those jobs I'd started, but never finished, when I was working. ;-) Once I got all that done, SWMBO declared that I could no longer make messes (the house was on the market - messes don't work). I got *really bored, so found a job within a couple of weeks. It was a contracting job out of state but I made out like a bandit for a year.

That's always true. We did just buy a refrigerator, but not what you're looking for.

[Robert Green]

Does your dog make house calls? He's the right height to get to the compressor and probably doesn't have bad knees.

The temperature of the upper and lower compartments follows the room temperature, no matter where the dials are set. The problem has been coming on slowly, and started last summer. Since we've moved away from AC and the kitchen can run from 60F to 90F, it's only a problem when the air temp is above 76F.

It used to go below -10F. Now it rarely goes below 8F (I know because I bought a great wireless refrigerator thermometer set with hi/lo memories some recommended here).

I've had to defrost it several times manually (and impatiently - I didn't just let it stand, I used hot water and a hair dryer to defrost it) from the door being left ajar on a humid night and the freezer coil condensate drain hose getting plugged. I believe the last time this happened I may have put a pinhole leak in the unit, although I haven't tested for it. Could also be that after 30+ years, this old White-Westinghouse has bitten the dust. Compressors don't last forever.

I just pulled the freeze floor up to check the coils and the fan. The coils were really gurgling, a lot more than I remembered and I know from car A/C work that gurgling usually means low refrigerant. From what I read, finding the leak, repairing and recharging it are a little out of my league. I might pay a reasonable amount to have it done, but I also know that old cars and appliances reach an age where they can out-cost a new one in repairs and efficiency.

So, ask your dog: am I right that this isn't a job for a formerly handy person who can't get down on his knees if the good lord commanded it?

-- Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

My wife declared a moratorium on science projects - anything with trailing wires or flashing lights - so we could show the house. But after having troops of looky-lous but no firm contracts we decided we would sell *after* we moved even though that will limit seriously what we can buy.

I think empty houses always sell for more - just because they look bigger, but that's just personal observation. I am sure others have seen the reverse.

We're still not 100% on where we're going. It *was* San Diego, but both the city AND the state are in serious trouble so we're waiting until she stops working to get serious. Last two assignments have been abroad, next one might be, too. It's strange how much a bad market can change all your plans if it hits at exactly the wrong time. I guess there's never a right time.

-- Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

[krw]

Yeah, they are that way. Since I wasn't working there was no way to buy a house without selling the one we had. I got an apartment in Ohio and went alone while she sold the place, which she did in three months. Actually, the buyers made an offer about the time I left but they wanted the contract contingent on their house selling. Since we had just put the house on the market, I didn't like that idea. They sold three months later and bought ours. I should have accepted the contingency. :-/

All agents I know (and my wife worked for many) have told us the opposite. People want to visualize how the layout works. For example, a bedroom is easier to size up if there is a bed in it. Beds are standard so even if it's a queen and you have a king it's easier to visualize the fit than if there is nothing. In fact there are companies that just do "staging" for this purpose.

I thought '07 was a bad time to sell, until '08 and '09. I found a regular job in '08, so we moved to Alabama and bought a house. We probably should have rented before we bought but a year in an apartment was about all I could take. ;-)

[Robert Green]

That's what I would like to avoid. Good money after bad. We're eating everything in it so I can spend one last time checking it out, then we'll just get a new one. I am not convinced any of the new ones will be able to run over 30 years like this unit has. I just hope it lasts until we move out, and with wife's new assignment, that could easily be another 3 years. I can't see the real estate market stagnating for five years, but you never know.

-- Bobby G.

[krw]

It won't, but do you really care?

It's already been four years. I have complete faith that Obummer will keep it going for at least another three and it'll be at least another two or three to recover. Five more? No problem. Remember the late '70s and early '80s, brought to you by the fiscal policies of Nixon, Ford, and particularly Obummer's mentor, Carter. I believe the appropriate terms are "malaise" and "stagflation".

[Robert Green]

One day I will learn not to beat myself up over not having 20-20 hindsight. It's not today, though. We almost sold and moved just before the crash but mom got cancer and that took all our spare time and then some. 2008 was a bad, bad year in so many ways . . .

We've got an unusally small home and lots of stuff. Agents were always telling us to put as much as we could in storage. I guess the idea is to have it looked "lived in" but not like a packrat's burrow. (-: Now my wife wants me to get rid of the 20 or so PC's I've built starting with my first IBM clone in 1985. They're lined up against the basement wall, doing nothing, so I suppose it's time but it's so hard to dispose of something you've spent so much time on, even if it's worthless now. I've promised I would as soon as I've copied all the data off them. Ahem.

That's what we're thinking. Renting before buying. That will give the market time to recover but sometimes I wonder if it ever will.

Housing demand is really "adjustable" in that kids can move back in with their parents when they get in a jam. I know several folks whose kids are back in the nest and no one is happy about it, neither the kids nor the parents.

I just read an article that said in NYC they have begun stringent enforcement of partitioning laws to prevent people from taking apartments and chunking them up into smaller units by dividing the LR into two more bedrooms. The cause was the death of some firefighters whom the city claims died because they became disoriented fighting a fire in an illegally partitioned apartment.

BTW, we bit the bullet and bought a new GE fridge. It's SO quiet compared to the old one but more importantly, it uses 1/4 the juice the old one did. We should have done it much, much sooner. I was astounded when I compared the Kill-o-Watt readings. Some of the reasons are obvious - the doors and walls are perhaps three times as thick as the old unit and I am sure that the motor is much more efficient.

I was worried from reports on the web that it wouldn't cool as quickly as the old one, but it cooled quickly enough for my taste. $600 (included an additonal two year warranty) but worth it - AND - we stimulated the economy! Got it from HomeDespot and I must say, it was pretty painless (except for the $ part) once a salesman actually showed up in appliances - took 20 minutes! The guys they sent were pros - had to take the side door off (which we never use and whose hinge pins had rusted). Thank God for WD-40. A two minute soak and that pin popped right out.

These two very small Hispanic guys managed to navigate some very awkward turns by carrying it between them with just a big strap underneath. I was impressed - not a scratch or mark anywhere. Showed up two hours early, too. Took away the old box too, for free. Delivery and set-up was done by a company called HBI - they also called three times after the install to make sure I was happy. Good deal.

We figured that we could be staying here for a while so why not be happy and cut the electric bill at the same time? Of course, now that we've made the purchase, we'll find the perfect real estate deal.

-- Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

Nah, now that you mention it, *I* don't think I'll be running for another 30 years, so why worry? The cost savings are proving to be enormous. This unit uses the same amount of juice in two weeks that the old box used in three days! And it's much colder, too. The only issue is that I will probably have to buy an extra shelf. The unit came with only one and that's certainly not enough. How much do you think they'll gouge me for an extra shelf?

I am trying hard to forget them. In 1980, I bought my first new car with a

20% APR. OUCH!

Japan had over a decade of it. The problem is that each new crisis is radically different from the old one. Now, the world's economies are so intertangled that if Greece takes a hard punch, some small country somewhere else in the world falls over as a result. It's hard to know which way to turn. It's clear that there are as many proposed solutions are there are economists.

-- Bobby G.

[krw]

Not so much beating myself up as an observation. We sold in 2007 and bought in 2008. I should have waited another year to buy but as I said, I was really sick of living in an apartment.

More precisely, they want it to looked lived in so people can see how things fit. It also helps hide the imperfections of an empty room. If there isn't furniture to look at perhaps it'll be a crack in the wall that grabs the attention. ;-)

I still have my "first day order" IBM PC (from '82). I've pretty much gotten rid of all of the rest of the junk, after the last two moves. The next won't be any easier, though. I've added a ton (almost literally) of tools. Preparing for retirement. ;-)

You don't want the market to recover *before* buying! I'm sure it will recover, but not soon.

Understandable. Ours is married, so that certainly wouldn't work out well.

They have maps of every apartment? Seems lame. Not that I disagree much with the city.

We recently bought a Electrolux 'fridge from Lowes. Same deal, though it's a straight shot for us (this house is on a slab). We'll probably buy the matching stove around Christmas. We're debating on whether we want to go for gas (dual fuel) or electric. I'd have to have gas piped around the house - another $400 if we went that way.

I doubt that a 'fridge or the $600 is going to make much of a difference here.

[krw]

No idea. Probably something ridiculous. You should be able to find them online.

We bought our first house in ,82. When we started looking the 30-year fixed mortgages were going above 18%, though when we finally closed we got what we thought was a bargain at 14.5%. We now have a 4.25% mortgage.

Every one is different because governments act differently. We'd be well on the way to a recovery now if the government didn't keep driving stakes into the economy's heart.

[Robert Green]

Ah yes, I can describe the many faults concealed in this house. First was the giant hole, not just crack, in the wall and floor where the sellers had torn out a half-partition to make room for the 17CF refrigerator. In the basement the double ceiling should have been a tipoff (it will be NEXT time) that something wicked was waiting behind (termite damage and wiring done by a sixteen year old who didn't appear to have access to even the simplest "My Home Wiring Basics" book. Wires wrapped with masking tape, grounds run as neutrals, hot and neutral reverse on outlets, ground wires run off to places unknown (and ungrounded!) and a host of grounded outlets without grounds or GFI. When the walls came down in the basement, there was black mold and a few collapsed cinderblocks and more evidence of old termite infestation.

I have its brother. $5,000+ from Computerland and an extra $655 for a second full size single sided(!) floppy disk drive. I remember upgrading it to a POS CMS 20Mb hard drive a few years later (and a new PS after the original smoked). That's when I learned the value of making constant backups both on schedule and whenever there's new software to be installed.

I only wish we would come as far with solar power as we did with PC's from that era. Oh, and I ordered 64K of RAM instead of the standard 16K soldered on to the motherboard. I think the improvements in clones that I appreciated the most was case design. Early clones cases were works of art - holes could be anywhere, tabs didn't mate, and every one of them would slit you up good if you made a wrong move.

Oops. We as sellers want the market to recover before we sell; we as buyers want the market to tank further before we buy. And round and round it goes. Part of the rut is that a bizarre equilibrium is in effect. People are all waiting for a "negative crash" - an event so profound it signals true recovery. The problem is, that only downward crashes produce those big "marker" events. I think two or three months of strong new homes sales might be the few drops that turn the half empty glass into more than half full, but it's like a cake - rises slowly but crashes quick if you slam the oven door hard enough. Remember, a lot of this recession is fear based, not reality based, and people eventually lose their fear despite economic indicators.

Oh, but . . . It's happening right next door. My neighbor feels she has to take them in (kid, baby daddy and babies) but I can see it's killing her. I've had the "tough love" talk with her, but they are her babies and always will be and I could talk until I am hoarse - she's not going to toss them out even if they hold parties when she's visiting sick relatives and her kid's friends trash the joint and steal anything they can get away with.

Their version of Google "inner" earth. I think there's supposed to be a floor plan on file for every place in the city. They have a pretty good computer system for keeping tracking of the city's real estate because it's their tax base. (-: I don't think the FD has a real time system to bring up floor plans of buildings at fire scenes, but I'll bet they are working on it. In the fatality case, they had violated some formula inspectors use to figure out minimum floor space and emergency escape routes. What good is having a fire escape if it's walled off and accessible only through a locked door?

Interesting. Wife is 100% a "cooking with gas" gal. I don't care - I've used both and have a slight preference for gas cooking-wise and electric safety wise. I've never heard of a house being leveled by an "electricity explosion" but we have several spectacular gas explosions a year around here. One recent explosion at a shopping mall was captured on CCTV cameras. Gas can knock down a whole structure in seconds.

It's the psychological value, not the real value. I just hate the idea of not being able to stretch the old one to the bitter end and leaving some buyer with MY refrigerator, especially after I've "automated" it.

-- Bobby G.