On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:26:31 -0700, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Not only that. Once you build your fence on the wrong property line
you will have trouble selling your house should the buyer do a
property line survey.
I have a "good neighbor" case of my own. The first owner of the
adjacent property paved his driveway so that it had a wedge 50 feet
long with the base side encroaching some 24 inches into my curbside
end. To correct the property line meant he won't have access to a
rear garage should he decide to build one. Since It wouldn't affect
the placement of my yet-to-be-built house and his encroachment would
only affect my detached garage I said don't worry about it.
I think it is still salvagable. Invite him and his wife out to dinner
so that "we can talk about things". You'll be paying. He may want to
talk about things at home, but he'll do so more willingly, now that
like a wolf presenting to the leader of the pack, you've bowed to him
a little bit. (Somewhere in this group, I wrote about how I invited
my next door neighbor out for a drink so we could discuss things. He
didn't want to go and we never discussed things, but he's treated me a
lot nicer ever since I invited him.)
If you go, choose some place and time where you can sit at the table a
long time and where there is room to put out 2 or 3 pages of paper.
Have your legal description but the most imporrtant thing will be the
map that I think comes with it. Copy that, and on the copy or on
your own sketch, put in more landmarks, and make it clear which ones
you put in because he's going to doubt them, and you don't want to
look like your lying.
Maybe your survey is enough, but maybe there is some reason he thinks
he owns more that your survey shows. In fact you may want to call
your surveyor and ask if he has any advice on how to handle this and
how to do so tactfully. Also ask him if he verified that the
neigbhbor's description to make sure there is no overlap. I'm not
saying that is his job. Sort of I think his job is only to take your
description and apply it to the land around your house.
But mistakes happen. AFter this n'hood was built, we found out we had
built some of it on someone else's land. Until we found out, we were
in the position of your neighbor. And it wasn't a matter of moving a
car, but of tearing down a house. Of course that wasn't going to
happen and both sides were businessmen (who developed the land but
didn't live on it) so they worked out a deal for us to give them some
of our unbuilt land, in return for keeping the land we had built on.
So it's probably your job to do this:
Before you do this, you can go to the county clerk's office and make a
copy of the deed to his property. A dollar a page,maybe more now and
you only need to copy the legal description, and the map if there is
any. Now even though it is public record, he may well find your going
to the county clerk's office like looking in his wife's underwear
drawer, so after you've compared your description with his, and seeing
if there is only one segment of your property line that abuts his, or
perhsps more, you'll see the legal description of that segment. Mark
that too, maybe overdraw it with a colored pencil.
And you can point out to him how big his yard is on the other side of
(part of my plan is missing here, but never get angry and don't insult
him or his intelligence or knowledge of the law. He may have been
misled by the seller but don't let it sound like he was a sucker or a
Somewhere in all this, give him time to talk to his real estate agent
or the prior owner (he may fess up if he won't lose money) or his
lawyer, or to go to the court house and look at his lot description
(Don't offer to show him the copy you made. That was just for your
knowledge.) and when he gets the idea that he's going to lose, take
them out to dinner again, with no papers. Inviting them to your house
for dinner might be nice too, unless your house is nicer than his.
OTOH, he's had years to fix his up, so maybe it's not.
My thoughts exactly. Look into the zoning and see if there's something about
disabled vehicles. Also, if you're part of some kind of homeowners
association, I'd be surprised if there wasn't rules against that.
Also shouldn't be threatening him about the law and his cars. Noone
likes a rat for a neighbor. It's one thing to insist on the land the
OP thinks he owns, but to imply he will sic the cops on the neigbor is
If the OP were going to look at them all the time and didn't want to,
that would be one thing, but he's building a fence. If it is a solid
fence, he's already imposiing on the neigbhor because even though he
has a right to build a fence, the neighbor probably likes the view and
the unfettered breeze that goes through his back yard.
Plus the day may come when the OP may want to violate some rule, or
may do so unknowingly. Rules like not keeping cars on your property
only matter if someone is upset by their violation. IF the OP is upset
by what the nbor does, the nbor will be upset every time the OP breaks
a rule, even a little bit. And he'll call the police on him.
"The Miami-Dade County Property Appraiser uses the "My Home"
Geographic Information System application to provide Real Property
information on individual parcels of land. Through the use of
up-to-date technology and the Internet, you are now able to search our
database and find information on almost any parcel of land in
Miami-Dade County. You can view a detailed map of the parcel area and
print property information. A text only version is available for a
faster response time. Click the button below to begin.''
I suspect you will be able to view most all you need here to clarify
the property bounders. Our local government allows me to see
measurements, etc. Let the guy look at his own property on-line.
The guy has to get over it. Do not put your fence or construction
debris very (too) close to his property.
BTW, the cars in some neck-of-the-woods are considered "yard
My county in N. Illinois, also has on line aerial views of all properties
with property lines superimposed. However they point out that the lines are
for reference only and not a legal survey. In my case, the lines are a good
20 to 30 feet to the South of where the actual survey that I just had done,
shows the real line to be. So I would suspect that Miami/Dade may have a
similar warning on their website. In fact in my case, the surveyor pointed
out that the hand drawn picture of a circular drive separating my property
from my neighbor to the North had been misinterpreted as a full circle
coming back toward my house (it leads down to the river) but in reality only
circles until it is headed directly towards the river and then from there on
is straight. Mute point as it was never actually put in.
I did that, the aerial maps are not very precise, with tree covering
and low resolution, I am only able to tell that there is more room on
my side then his side, but nothing that I can use definitively to scale
off some distances.
Around here, the "corners" of property are pegged with a square 1/2" X 1/2"
iron 'pin' driven deep into the ground by the surveyors who laid out the
plat for the original developer. If you're lucky, you may have the same.
Try digging where the survey says the corner of your property is.
I have that too. Last year my neighbour got really mad and threatened
to sue me because I had some tree branches trimmed off my roof.
This summer my neighbour on the other side of my house brought over a
metal detector and we found the property marker for my house. The
nine trees between the angry neighbour and my house are completely on
my side of the property line.
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