Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Page 11 of 13  
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:22:36 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

rubber the tire is FUBAR. Best thing for "grinding" the liner is a prep disk on a low speed die grinder or air drill.. Use a PROPER PREBUFF cleaner, or a pure hydrocarbon solvent like napyha , white gas, or even TRicor. (all components of the major tire repair companies' pre-buff cleaners).
In a pinch, use tire patch glue ans scrape it off with a razor blade.
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clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:09:54 -0500:

Darn. Someone said it was MEK.
That was good to hear because MEK is easy to come by. But, if it's not MEK, then we have to start anew to figure out what it is that we can find in a common hardware store.

Makes sense not to want to melt the rubber. How does 500 RPM sound for speed?

I have seen those half-round grinding disks which seem like a nice thing to have in my toolbox for cleaning the inside of the tire.

Googling to see the box store equivalents, it seems that Naptha isn't sold at Home Depot, but it is sold at Lowes:
LOWES: Crown 1-Gallon Slow to Dissolve Naphtha Item #: 206531 | Model #: CR.VM.M.41 http://www.lowes.com/pd_206531-34228-CR.VM.M.41_0__?productId024053
Are you sure the prebuff solvent is naptha, and not MEK?

Interesting idea!
This makes sense, especially since you already have the glue on hand, and, as noted by someone, the remainder of the glue will likely dry well before you ever get to use it again, so, you may as well use it up.
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On 12/10/2015 8:01 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Ideally you want the cleaner/prebuff and cement to come from the same vendor. And regarding your carbide tool question, it's feet per minute so speed depends on the size of the tool.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
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AMuzi wrote, on Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:12:17 -0600:

Most chemicals don't know what company they work for, so, while I fully and completely *understand* your concerns about having all the chemicals coming in the same color can, I pretty much consider naptha from brand A to be the same as naptha from brand b.
I don't buy scared.
The carbide bit is usually set to about 2000 to 5000 rpm in most of the professional descriptions; it's the half-round rasper that seems to be set really slowly at 500 rpm.
The pre-buff step can be skipped, as the main purpose seems to be to prevent the half-round rasper from getting clogged, which is something of import to a guy who fixes tires all day, but which is far less important to a guy who only repairs his tires once every three years.
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UPDATE: My tire went flat and I drove about a mile as it was losing air:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5829/23247638469_e1fb786d7a_b.jpg
I brought the wheel to Wheel Works, who will repair the puncture using an internal patchplug, and they will mount and balance and rotate the tire with the spare, all for free:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/608/23615541425_40cf48f94b_b.jpg
Unfortunately, the tire was ruined by my driving on it:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/663/22988487783_3e5d6141cc_b.jpg
They told me that they can't fix a tire with the belt showing:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/616/23615540385_74ce028743_b.jpg
Given the tire is ruined, I decided to experiment with patches:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/673/22988487613_da4f5596c6_b.jpg
Here is one type of patchplug:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5760/23533146971_4ffc8c2ea0_b.jpg
Here is another type of patchplug:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5727/23319852050_310ff00e1f_b.jpg
I bought a few tools, such as the stitching tool & cement:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/725/23319852880_7c9849ed98_b.jpg
And, I plan on experimenting to see which type works best:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/724/23319852250_fb67e9b31e_b.jpg
Here is one of the better videos on how to properly repair a hole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5uBUaMsrA

Here are the tools that this video recommends: a. Tire repair awl b. Half-moon scraper c. Carbide bit reamer d. Cone-shaped grinding wheel (<5,000RPM) e. PatchPlug f. Stitching tool
I tried to find these tools locally, but I may need to buy online: http://www.vampa.net/category_s/39.htm
Here are the chemicals that this video recommends: a. Westernweld Inner Liner Pre-Buff Solution Redi-Buff BU32 or BU16S b. Westernweld Self-Vulcanizing Fast Drying Cement SV8 or SV32 c. Westernweld Inner Liner Sealer RS8 or RS32
I tried to find them locally, but again, I may need to buy online: http://www.vampa.net/category_s/36.htm http://www.vampa.net/product_p/ww-rs32.htm
I will call the company recommended in that video to find a source for the three chemicals and for the half-dozen tire-repair tools: Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com
Any corrections, clarifications, or further advice is always welcome.
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I think most home users skip a few steps. The question is whether those skipped steps are crucial.
This video shows how to use (what they call) a plugpatch in which they use the following tools and materials:
Tools: A. Half-moon scraper B. Carbide cutter <== appears critical to use! C. Tungsten conical rasp D. Stitch roller
Materials: a. liquid buffer b. super valkarn g vulcanizing cement c. sealiner d. PW-3505 Plug Patch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78JIOaEG6c
1. Remove offending object from the tire & inspect inside 2. Mark outside crossshatch and inside circle 3. Spray liquid buffer & scape with half-moon scraper 4. Carbide cutter to 500 RPM (very slow speed!) 5. Conical Tungsten rasp at 500RPM on inside circle 6. Vacuum or brush away buffing dust 7. Vulcanizing cement applied and dried to the tire & hole 8. Vulcanizing cement applied and dried to the plugpatch taper 9. Insert and pull wire until the patch dimples 10. Stich with a roller from the inside out of the patch 11. Restore overbuffed area with seal liner 12. Cut off the plug from the outside
Most homeowners seem to skip a *lot* of steps!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R8IZ_mPh_U

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Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 04:37:23 +0000:

Since vulcanizing cement is easy to come by, the problem, it seems, for homeowners, is getting small quantities of the two fluids: a. buffer spray b. inner liner sealer <=== this is the most critical
Also a couple of the basic tools are hard to come by: A. Half-moon scraper B. Carbide reamer <=== this is the most critical C. Conical rasp
I called Western States at 800-831-4724, but they only wholesale.
They suggested Bomgaards http://www.bomgaars.com but they don't seem to have stores in California.
Given that the carbide reamer and the inner liner sealer are the most critical tools, what would you use for the carbide reamer?
NOTE: The spiral reamer that comes with most outside plug kits doesn't look *anything* like the smooth fluted carbide reamer in the videos, where the goal is to smooth the cut edges of the belts I believe.
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On 12/9/2015 11:45 AM, Danny D. wrote:

If your area has a Tech route salesman, everything you need is on his truck: http://www.techtirerepairs.com/
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
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AMuzi wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 13:11:23 -0600:

Interesting. Thank you for that reference. That site has a lot of details for each fluid.
They have vulcanizing fluids and cements for example: http://www.techtirerepairs.com/products/vulcanizing-fluids-cements/
However, the vulcanizing cement is easy to come by; but the black goopy final inner liner sealer (tar?) is the hardest to find on the street.
I think this is that sealer (Butyl Liner Repair Sealer): http://www.techtirerepairs.com/products/vulcanizing-fluids-cements/739.html
It's made by Tech International, 200 E. Coshocton St., Johnstown, Ohio 43031, 740-967-9015, and also listed by Chemtrec 1-800-424-9300. So I will call them tomorrow to ask where I can get small quantities and what is a suitable substitute.
The ingredients on the MSDS don't tell me much: 50 to 100% solvent naphtha (petroleum blend), light
Does anyone on this newsgroup know of any commonly available substitute for this black goopy inner liner sealer?
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Danny D. wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:30:03 +0000:

This seems to be the inner liner sealer goopy tar. But I don't know if there is a box store equivalent.
$1 per ounce: http://safetytireseal.com/sc16.html
$2 per ounce: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tire-Patch-Repair-Inner-Liner-Sealer-PROFESSIONAL-QUALITY-/121309678038
http://www.lawsonproducts.com/lawson/Tire-Repair-Inner-Liner-Sealer/1417734.lp http://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/4049/re76f-rema-inner-liner-repair-sealant-16oz-re76f
I still haven't been able to figure out what this stuff is made up of, and where I can get it at reasonable prices in small quantities at the box stores.
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:26:46 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

petroleum distilates, carbon black, di(benzothiazol-2-yl) disulphide, and zinc oxide along with butyl rubber resin.
It is made for the job, and you would be far better off not using anything (the way it has been done for many years by many tire repair professionals) than using something untied and unproven in it's place. Like I said before: "Dont screw with tire repairs" "It's only your life riding on that repair"
Either do it right, or get it done. Criminal negligence charges stay with you for life if you happen to survive and someone else doesn't
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:17:09 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

He's only trying to plug a hole the "right way." Nothing wrong with that. I think it's a bit impractical, but that's just my opinion. And I don't agree with your "criminal negligence charges" for plugging a tire. A tire plug is a simple repair. Might as well say you can't work on your suspension or gas tank or electrical system.
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:52:02 -0600, Vic Smith

those repairs cause a fatal or serious injury accident he CAN be charged with criminal negligence or criminal negligence causing death.
Tires are one of the most critical safety items on a car - along with brakes and steering. Anyone who has to ask numerous times for information about doing those jobs, and then totally ignores advice from "professionals" with decades of experience should most definitely NOT be working on those parts of a car - and if he does, and causes serious injury or death - he is guilty of at least terminal stupidity if not criminal negligence. Too bad stupidity isn't illegal.
At least unlike genius, stupidity is ultimately self limiting.
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clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:20:42 -0500:

Whom are you talking about? I haven't ignored a single thing said in this thread. I have been very responsive, and I have added value wherever I could.
In fact, I think, based on the advice, and the research I did, and my talking with the guys at Goodyear, Wheelworks, and Costco today, that I know *exactly* how to properly repair a punctured tire.

Let's repeat that we are not in a ladies' knitting group. The whole point of the repair and tech group is to discuss such things.
There is nothing wrong with learning tricks for doing the job safely and correctly.
For example, I wonder if a masonry nail can suffice for a poor-man's alternative to the carbide drill bit?
What do you think, given the purpose is to smooth the cut belts?
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On 12/10/2015 09:49 PM, Danny D. wrote:

You have not completed your education until you have talked to the techs at a certified aircraft tire repair station.
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Wolfgang wrote, on Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:58:14 -0500:

That is a good point. The Dunning-Kruger effect should be known to *all* of us.
There are many ways to summarize the Dunning-Kruger effect, but, one way, that relates to your comment above, is that the more we know, the more we realize that we don't know.
Another way to summarize Dunning-Kruger is to say that only a fool thinks he knows everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:20:42 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Bullshit. Before he's done, he'll know far more about how to correctly plug a tire than 99% of the so-called "professionals," who are mostly kids working in various tire chain stores. He's overkilling it, and so are you. When did they outlaw amateur DIY car repairs? Why do they sell plug kits at all auto parts stores? I've bought them, and plugged tires with them.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

All the time he wasted on asking questions and arguing with you he could have spent he could have made a freek'n tire himself. I'm surprised no one local to him just didn't give the tire a sidewall aneurysm.
Clare, you are absolutely correct that his survivors will end up in court after his "patch" fails. Our shop worked on cop cars and occasionally state police troopers would come in. "NO plugs patches only" I wouldn't want crap on my car at 120 and they didn't get it either.
There are things called ethics and morals which DD doesn't seem to comprehend. Only DISCOUNT, FREE, CHEAPER. He knows it all, except...
--
Tekkie

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Tekkie® wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:33:59 -0500:

What you're saying, in effect, is that you feel all the time *wasted* [sic] on *thinking*, is wasted effort, in your mind.
And that's fine, because it's *your* mind that thinks that way.
My mind "wastes" time on thinking things through. Thank you.
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Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:41:47 -0800:

What I love about knowing how to do something is that you then know whether the pro is following the rules or not.
Most often, sadly, they skip many steps, mainly because they really don't care.
But you'd never know, unless you knew enough to know.
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