Need to replace Electric Baseboard Heating Units & Replacement Windows

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If you are going to have a back-up source for heat... and even if you don't... Then don't say "high tech furnace's are a threat".
The fact is, the newer, high tech, modern day furnace's are safer than the old units.

Expensive at 6 cents... something isn't right. Of coarse a heat pump would be more economical than your straight electric heat.

Going backwards in technology again are we?

You're starting to sound like an engineer that is wanting to spend $1000 to save $5. Good luck with that.
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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

What's wrong with propane wall heaters for emergency backup, or even a nice woodstove?
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
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you
As in my other reply, there are many ways to provide emergency heat without electric. But in most cases, these are inefficient and compromise your comfort.
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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

I disagree. In many areas, electric is expensive, and in our case not even available. Wood heat is very comfortable, and so is propane. Propane is very efficient (ventless). Wood is only a bit less with some burners (http://woodboilers.com /)
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without
Ok, this discussion is way off the original track... BUT
Electric isn't expensive EVERYWHERE. Especially when you use it to operate a Heat Pump.
Wood heat isn't for MOST people as it's very labor intensive and requires time that some people don't have. Or a schedule to accommodate one either.
Then you want to talk about VENTLESS LP heaters....... WHAT A JOKE!!!!! Ever heard of Carbon Monoxide??
You do know CO kills RIGHT??
You do know, you don't use VENTLESS heaters as a primary source of heat, RIGHT?
So to make it plain and simple... you can take those VENTLESS heaters and... well, you get the point.
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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Ok, so you don't know much about propane heaters. I have a CO detector. It's never measured anythimg above 0 with two propane fridges, a propane cookstove, propane dryer, and propane water heater. The only time it squawked was when the kids fired up the gas genny in the attached garage (measured 95). Propane stoves do not give off CO.
Our primary heat is wood. It's a pleasure, not a chore, and it's very inexpensive. $450 / year.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
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and...
You DID NOT just say a propane cookstove doesn't give off CO?????????????????????????
Isn't your water heater vented? Guess what... there's CO going out the flu!!
What brand and model CO Detector do you own? How much did you pay for it? Where did you purchase it?
A quality meter is $200 plus... and not sold in most large retail "chain" stores.
I know quite a bit about LP (Liquified Protroleum) Propane... R-290
Now I suggect that you go read up on the appliances in your home that you know nothing about.

You do realize that burning WOOD creates CO? Or did you assume it was vented to remove the smoke?
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Gentlemen all gases can kill person it depend on concentration of that gas in the area you are in and when I said all I mean it all the worst are does that person can't smell are test I lived till I was 15 years old that we had only wood to heat are cook I also lived in bayou country of Louisiana for 7 years where we had open heating heaters power it by propane and I never hear from anyone dieing from CO however precautions must be taking there is the way to add oxygen to the rooms heaters are use for absorbing the CO I can't say which terminology you wish to use it does not make difference as long it comes out to same thing reduction of CO safe for personal living
Dido say that
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FINTANUK (INCOMPETENT FRAUDSTERS) UNLOCK THE SECRET CODE TO SCREWING UP YOUR BUSINESS, AS PIONEERED BY LEE TWAT INGRAM = INCOMPETENT MORON. LET'S READ MORE ABOUT THE SECRET CODE TO BUSINESS FAILURE, LEE YOU TWAT.
http://www.fintanuk.com/downloads/the_securit_code_pro_sec.pdf
DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THESE RETARDED FINTANUK FRAUDSTERS.
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JOKE!!!!!
propane
garage
"chain"
you
We don't live in barns no more.
We also have indoor plumbing.
CO has many effects whether you realize it's happening to you or not.
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That's because you can barely read or write.

Bullshit! Tell us what appliances absorb CO to make a room safe! From the look of your posts, I'd say your suffering from oxygen deprivation right now! Breathe deeper...
--
Respectfully, Bob

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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

If a propane burner is emitting CO, then it's not adjusted properly. Our gas company measured 13 ppm using the air-free method.
The CO emitted from a woodstove goes up the chimney, not into a house.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
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JOKE!!!!!
heat,
propane
garage
flu!!
"chain"
you
If a propane burner can burn so clean....... WHY ARE THEY VENTED?????????
And while we are on it... WHY ARE THEY NOT 100% EFFICIENT?????????
Get a clue man, you're DANGEROUS!!!!!
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kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Not all propane appliances are vented. Cooking ranges, fireplaces, and others are designed that way. Spreading misinformation is dangerous, but then you seem to know more than the manufacturers. A non-vented propane fireplace is 100% efficient, since none of the heat goes up a chimney.
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Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
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VENTED?????????
BULLSHIT!!!!!!!
Just because they are UNVENTED, doesn't mean they don't produce CO.
And if they were 100% efficient... they wouldn't be creating CO... DIPSHIT.
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On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:20:42 -0500, Steve Spence

Dude, Have you read the first two pages of those "non-vented" 100% efficient heaters? Bythe time you finish reading all the warnings and precautions you'll think twice before using a non vented appliance. Bubba
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You are aware that a non vented gas or propane can legally exhaust up to 800ppm of CO into a residence? Levels higher than that are not uncommon.
You're correct, spreading misinformation is dangerous. Please educate yourself regarding CO and gas or propane appliances.
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:20:42 -0500, Steve Spence

--
Cat fur expands to fill all available
drives.
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Catalytic propane radiant heaters are popular in large spaces, but I wouldn't use one in a home, and have never seen one used in a home.
I saw 3 UNVENTED natural gas heaters purchased to be installed in a home by an ex-gas company employee, and heard later that the tenants complained of the odor using them. I had a friend that used stove top burners to heat a couple of rooms upstairs in his parent's house, when I visited my eyes burned a lot.
People do use unvented heaters, and some are advertised as being safe to use in a home, but if there is a warning on the heater to use it ONLY in a well ventilated space, it is probably not safe to use in a home.
There has been a progression in the safety of natural gas space heaters, the first had no safety devices at all, then they had pilot lights with thermo- couples to not open the main valve if the pilot goes out, and both of mine also have an overheat Klixon in series with the thermocouple, and that makes it safer, but requires changing the thermocouple more often because of the resistance of the switch and wires, and the thermocouple produces less voltage after a few months of use.
I have no problem with using the gas space heaters, but I prefer not to have one running in a room I sleep in, even thought they are vented with 5 inch metal vent pipes into a tile lined masonry chimney.
Joe Fischer
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion
--



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quoting from that source.....
Chemical equation
Generally, the chemical equation for stoichiometric burning of hydrocarbon in oxygen is as follows:
C_xH_y + (x + \\frac)O_2 \\rightarrow \\; xCO_2 + (\\frac)H_2O
For example, the burning of propane is:
C_3H_8 + 5O_2 \\rightarrow \\; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O
The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in oxygen is:
\\textrm + \\textrm \\rightarrow \\; \\textrm + \\textrm + \\textrm{Carbon\\ dioxide}
If the combustion takes place using air as the oxygen source, the corresponding equations are:
C_xH_y + (x+ \\frac)O_2 + 3.76(x+ \\frac)N_2 \\rightarrow \\; xCO_2 + (\\frac)H_2O + 3.76(x + \\frac)N_2
For example, the burning of propane is:
C_3H_8 + 5O_2 + 18.8N_2 \\rightarrow \\; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O + 18.8N_2
The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in air is:
\\textrm + \\textrm \\rightarrow \\; \\textrm + \\textrm + \\textrm{Carbon\\ dioxide} + \\textrm
bottom line, I couldnt see where CO by itself is produced.......by combusting propane and oxygen or propane and air..... co2, yes, co, no.
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