Need Roofing Estimate Advice

Planning on a new roof and got first estimate yesterday--another one expected early afternoon today. Would like some comments on two of the items in the estimate. 1. Down payment: 50% deposit to start and final payment upon completion 2. Rate for any carpentry repair; $60/hr for carpenter and $35/hr for Apprentice.
Myself, I think that 50% down is way too much. Something like 10-15% seems more reasonable. Doing the arithmetic, $3800 per week seem a bit pricey for carpenter's labor plus materials. Haven't been involved in dealing with the trades in a very long time--am I out of touch? Also, nothing in the proposal about liability (any damage done during the work), time frame for completion or warranty with respect to what happens if it leaks. Are there any key questions that I should ask? Your comments would be appreciated, especially if I get them before the next guy shows up. MLD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I would make sure they are insured and that they are going to cover any property damage. Flat tires from nails, broken eves etc. I would also want to know whether or not they are stripping the roof? I wouldn't be putting down 50% until I had materials sitting in my yard, or figure out what the "Daily" down payment is. In most cases the contractor is covering themselves by adding a carpenter fee just in case there is roof rot or something else that needs to be repaired outside of the normal scope. Your quote shouldn't include an hourly price for actually laying the shingles. When I've done roofs in the past it's roughly "very rough" $150 - $200 per bundle of shingles (this includes stripping the roof, tar paper, edging and everything else)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Just as a side note, having materials delivered and in the yard before handing over 50% is better but still no real guarantee. The material could be ordered from a yard on credit and not paid for, leaving the homeowner in the middle of a nasty dipute if the installer then disappears. And it does happen.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
50 % is not something I would pay unless it is after material is delevered and work has begun, even so 50% is an uncomfortable number. You should be able to get an idea and price of wood damage from looking inside, a T&M leaves the door open. They must have liability and workers comp you need to verify it with their insurance broker by calling,not his cert which could be faked and expired. You need a written warranty and time limit and whatever you need such as plant damage and cleanup. Get more bids and check refrences. Even going to your local courthouse to see if any litigation is pending will weed out crooks. A permit is a good idea as it gives you free ongoing inspections to find issues. And final payment after final inspection only . Get names of roofers from neighbors.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not too encouraging to me. But if you go with the lowest bid or lowest down payment, you will likely be sorely disappointed.
You should have been looking at your neighbors getting their new roofs for the last couple of years and latched onto one of those contractors as the guys you want to do yours.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I've never been a contractor but I have helped with a few roofs for friends and I am a home owner but a new roof should still be 15 years down the road. I would never give 50% down! The above advice sounds good to me. Pay the price of the materials when they are delivered. A contractor shouldn't have a problem with that since he/she has 30 days to pay the balance on their credit with the supplier. If they don't have crediot with a supplier, that should tell you something too. If you talk to that contractor again, ask him/her if their looking for help. I'd love to make that kind of money!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
shop around.. many contractors sub out the roofing, there's a good chance this guy will bring in some young guy to do the roof for $25-35 per square & charge you 4 times that. Roofing is hard work but very simple. Get a few quotes , check their references (prior customers).. stay away from large commercial contractors with lots of overhead if you want a good price. What State are you in? those might be the going rates for California & unions may control the work. I have done roofing in Colorado, Indiana, Maine, & New Hampshire & those prices sound outrages to me.
JMO. Rob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Your expectations and concerns are reasonable. Unfortunately, industry "standards" in your area will dictate what you can actually expect in a contract. Small startup companies will generally offer you the best price; long-term established contractors will offer you more security in terms of bonding, insurance, and warranty follow-through. A 10, 20 or 30 year warranty from a company which folds up its tents in 3 years is obviously worthless.
You should seek the lowest deposit possible, but anything below the prevailing rate in your area will be difficult to negotiate. The 50% deposit which you mentioned is fairly common. However, I personally believe that a reasonable deposit should consist of one or two hundred dollars "good faith deposit" followed by payments for actual expenses as they are actually accrued (materials and labor expenses at the time of expenditure). I also prefer a few days after completion before making the final payment. Otherwise, the purchaser has little clout in resolving disputes.
I've had 4 modestly expensive ($1000-$5000 each) exterior improvement contracts over the past few years and I've been fortunate enough to get all of them on COD terms. There was no down payment and payment in full was due immediately upon receipt of the invoice, which was generally 2 days after completion.
But this is a rare negotiation and I'd say that you are doing well if you can get by on a 25% deposit, 50% due on completion and the remaining 25% due 2 calendar days after completion. This gives you time to "walk the roof" (when it is cool!) and examine it for spongy areas, exposed nails, missing caulk, damaged shingles, bad flashing, etc. It also gives you time to test valleys with a garden hose if you desire before making that final payment. If you must pay in full upon completion, then let the contractor know that you want to walk the roof once or twice during construction and upon completion. Try to walk the roof along with the crew foreman so that you can discuss possible problems and also so that you will not be accused of causing any damage to the new roof.
Negotiating terms better than the prevailing rate for a deposit will be difficult but not impossible. A perfect credit rating is one of your strongest bargaining chip. So is ownership of multiple properties and/or any other indication that you may represent repeat business in the near future.
Warranty information should be very clearly spelled out in a contract. This should include more than just the manufacturer's warranty statement. Insurance, workman's comp and bonding information should be available upon request.
Rookie carpenters in my area make $10-$12 per hour and apprentice carpenters earn about $16-$20. Standard roofing crew seldom include anybody that I would rank much higher than apprentice carpenters. Of course, there is overhead and profit that must be tacked on top of those rate.
Generally, carpentry rates should be a factor only if there is structural damage due to leaks or if you are making major changes to your roof such as extending your roof lines to create an overhang. Resheathing costs should be flat-rated and clearly described in the contract as a contingency item at about $40-$55 total cost per sheet for removal, materials and installation. Anticipated carpentry work (installing ridge vents, etc.) should be part of your fixed cost estimate and included in the total price for the contract.
This is beyond the scope of your initial questions and request for advice, but you can always consider doing the roofing yourself, especially if you don't need a tearoff of the current shingles. Basic roofing is hard work and not rocket science. If you have one or two neighbors who also need new roofs, then you can form a team and attack one roof per weekend and probably complete one roof each Saturday. You can even save a bit on the trip charge for shingle delivery if the houses are close to one another. For about $50 per house, you can have the shingles delivered directly onto the roofs. Just worth considering.
Good luck, Gideon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"MLD" wrote

items
seems
labor
if
next
When I was in contracting, and it was a roofing job. Terms of contract would specify $100.00 to bind, 50% down when all materials on job site, and at the end of the first working day. Balance due upon inspection/sign off of building department.
Labor rates vary widely depending on region. Just don't get some yehoo in there charging going rates. Rates in my area are journeyman carpenter $23.68 per hr., apprentice $14.60, keep in mind this is their direct rate plus additional costs of workers compensation, social security, and bennies. Then you have profit for company, plus overhead which includes a ton of line items such as phone, fuel, shop, trucks, etc.etc. Rates billed T&M was billed at $75 per hour, and this was 5 years ago. The rate was charged for any person working, apprentice or journeyman.
Sheet goods would be priced per sheet installed, this is the way to go. Otherwise, if you do have some yehoo doing the job, you might be paying the proposed $60 per hour for a carpenter to run and get sheet goods all day. Additional work should be for unforseen problems such as rotted rafters/fascia or a problem where a price can't be given straight out like sheet goods. Even 1"x material can be priced out by the sq.ft., installation included.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
are these "carpenters" union or non union? i cant see anybody but a 20 year vet of carpenters union making 35$/hr. ive been a non union for around 15 years and make around 20$/hr. i would be very scared to let a roofer do any carpenter work. but then im pretty scared watching most roofers just lay down shingles....

I
the
happens
and
bennies.
line
for
the
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"I R Baboon" wrote

year
any
Who said anything about a carpenter making $35 per hr? Carpenters made $23.68, 5 years ago here, that's union, and it doesn't matter if you're a 5 yr journeyman or a 20 year, union scale is union scale. Benefits & all the other trimmings to have one carpenter on the payroll, you figure 40% more, that's actual cost. If we would've just charged for what they see on their check, we would've been broke! Companies do have to cover overhead plus turn a profit, otherwise no one would have any employees.
If a roofer, can't replace sheathing,fascia,rafters, or build a simple chimney saddle, I wouldn't have them on my roof.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

5
the
their
these housing developments that pop up over night pay next to nothing to all their subs. It's a huge profit margin for the general & everyone else cuts their own throats to stay alive. Those guys that make $9.00 to $14.00 would be the ones actually doing all the work. Get over yourself.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"longshot" wrote

all
would
How did new construction tract housing get into the subject? A reading comprehension problem, I presume.

Bite me fatboy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"longshot" wrote

&
A 6 pack, joint, and $50, is your normal days pay, eh?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

chance
square
yeah that's right.
I am a project manager for an industrial contractor these days. our rates aren't anywhere near $70.00 /hour & we have a shitload of overhead, with cranes & manlifts... ect
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
--
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from unsolicited email by Spam Alarm
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"longshot" wrote

LOL.......Writing from Mexico, are you? I'll bet you're worth every bit of $4.50 an hour the junk yard is paying you to sort the scrap metal.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.