Need help with RUUD electric furnace

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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (HVAC fella) wrote:

Awww isn't it cute! :-) Turtle found a friend.
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(HVAC fella) wrote:

It would be the only one that Daves got. Damn..did hell freeze over and thats why Daves looking for new buddies now?
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message (HVAC fella) wrote:

This is Turtle.
Sorry Bill i had you in my kill file but I took you out so I could read the Stupid stuff you like to come up with. Well Bill and Fart Breeze I have some news for you that is fixing to open up at alt.hvac and that is basicly that Paul was not one of the founding members of the alt.hvac at all. He was just a poster that was around at the time and had nothing to do with the making of the newsgroup. Also Paul's lie all these years is being exposed and his suck up buddy like yourself are tring to cover this up by bad mouthing anybody that talk about the making of the newsgroup alt.hvac or sci.engi.heat-vent-ac or it's origination. Now you better try to stand with Paul in his monent of trouble for being cought up with in lying all these years as being the father of the hvac groups and when the trueth comes out. It hurt when you see the lies that have been said all these years come to light.
So be ready to try to stand with Paul and his falling from power for he will need all the help he can get to over come it. Paul has hisself and 4 other suck up's to defend him in his lie. So stand with him as best you can when the trueth comes out. Also try your best to discredit me for the best way to cover up a lie is to discredit the persons bring the lie out as just a lie and nothing else.
TURTLE
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(HVAC fella) wrote:

I might suggest Terry, that you talk to Noon, and find out what was said during our 2.5 hour phone call yesterday. Also I suggest that you learn how to use Google and look again.....I was there...were you?
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message (HVAC fella) wrote:

This is Turtle.
I'll sure do that !
TURTLE
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Liar. Your nose problem would never allow you to plonk me.
Well Bill and Fart Breeze I have some

Oh really.
Also Paul's lie all these years is being exposed and his suck up

You need to tell somebody who gives a shit. I find somebody I'll point him your way.
Till then I'd rather discuss you.
Does everyone know you are an unlicensed hack?
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Sounds like they sent a parts changer out to fix your problem - "try this - nope, didn't work. replace that - nope didn't work." (you get the idea. Alot of these guys have very little training or experience and use the "need to order a part" excuse so they can go ask someone with the knowledge or to look up a generic service manual solution to what they have found on-site. Essentially you're paying them by the hour to "learn on the job". Unfortunately they tend to get lucky and "fix" the problem by replacing the right part by accident.

Another parts changer with better "technical" excuses.

If you want to wait around and pay for labour and enough parts until they stumble across what is actually causing the problem, then start with the phone book and call in the cheapest guys you can find.
If you want the problem diagnosed, identified, and CORRECTED, then find out who services the equipment you have OR an EXPERIENCED contractor. Yes, the guys who tend to specialize can be more expensive but compare that to paying for 2 or 3 different guys for at least an hour each to one guy who identifies and corrects the problem within an hour or so. Just my opinon as an HVAC building controls tech with 8 years of hearing the same things.
Savage
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This is Turtle.
First Don't fool with these AHS wizards. AHS signs up the cheapest producers of hvac equipment in the area and tells them to do it for about 1/4 the cost that a regular hvac contractor will work for and then you can sign up with us. AHS has not spend as much money on fixing at your hvac system 3 times as they would have by fixing it the first time with a real hvac contractor. They just get the cheapest workers that they can find and hope the fix it by the 4 th try where they break even on cost effective of getting a real hvac service company out there. They play the law of averages and hope to fix it by the 4 th try.
Secondly here. You have a 14.2 KW heat strips in the air handler and you say you have only 1,500 sq. ft. of floor space and take 2 hours to rise the temp 5F in the home at 42F outdoors. . Well there is two things going on here. First you need to go around and shut all the window and doors or your not running 14.2 KW worth of heat running. It sounds like your just running 10 KW at best and not running the full 14.2 KW of heat. At the 14 KW rate of heat your not going to be running no 2 hour to come up 5F on your home without the windows up or something like that.
Thirdly. Here is what i think is going on and it would fit to the not keeping up. The UBHC series Ruud / Rheem air handlers has roll electric elements in it and they are very pronded to failure is early life use and there is a recall of them if used in a horzinial application. i just think you have one of the elements out and just running on two of the three suppose to be running.
Fourthly. there is a recall on certain models and serial numbers of this air handler you have. Your model number is in the recall but you need to see the serial number to make sure it is in the recall units listed. Now i will give you the website to call or look at listed numbers to see if your unit is in the recall here for you to view. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml99/99061.html The number to call to check on your air handler is listed in the recall can be got at 1-877-749-6035 ------ 24 hour a day / 7 days a week Rheem Hot line if you have trouble getting it over the internet.
Fifthly here. the reason the air handlers is recalled is the Electric Heat element will start to burn up but they will slowly burn up and start spitting little balls of moltent metal into the ductwork and if installed in a horzonial application it will spit these little fire balls into the rooms of the house. There has been reports of people sitting in their living room and start seeing fire ball flying into the room from the ductwork on the carpet and setting fires. I think that would be interesting to watch the people's faces when they saw this. So if the air handler is not in a horzonial application. There would be very little chance of setting a fire.
Sixthly here. Check the serial number of your air handler and make sure your in the recall type of the air handlers and then call a Ruud or even a Rheem Dealer to get Rheem to replace the elements with the new type that does not spit out fire balls. The whole cost of having the whole blower unit and elements changed out is free of charge through a Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing Dealer. Now I did change out a few under the warranty but me being Commercial & not a residentiual contracted Rheem dealer . they would only give me the elements and sequancers to change out and give me $100.00 service cost to change them out. If your a residentiual contracted Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing Dealer you get $100.00 + the whole blower unit with elements in it to change out. So try to get a Ruud residentiual dealer and you get more for your change out valve.
seventhly here. Now Rheem / Ruud / WeatherKing could decline to change the elements out on it under the recall is the air handler is over 5 years old , none of the elements of the air handler are not burnt , and the air handler is installed in a vertical application. Now you can say this and get it changed out anyway. Well if there is a recall on my unit and it happens to set the house on fire. I will sue you as the dealer and Rheem for any damages that happen. Then the thought pattern changes and they change them out for free. The Rheem / Ruud / Weather King dealer are told to try to get out of it if possible. If your model and serial number is of the recall air handler. Take nothing less than new elements and sequancers on your unit and installed for free.
eightly here. If you do get the Ruud dealer to change the elements out under the recall . Do have him service your unit and check it out for any other defects that you may have. You may have to pay a little more to have it checked out but it maybe well worth it down the road with problems.
If you want to discuss the details of this. Just e-mail me and discuss it.
TURTLE
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How much insulation is in your attic, go measure it. Single pane aluminum windows ? or Good windows. Do doors seal tight. His furnace may be fine but house could be a real leaker in air and lack of insulation.
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This is Turtle.
Ransley , The reason I was a little bold here in saying that the 14.2 KW electric heat would do a 1,500 sq. ft. house at 42F out door is I'm working on a exact match of this right now. One of my tech just bought a house to fix up and live in it for a while and then sell it and trade up in house value. It is 1,600 sq. ft. , NO insulation in the walls or attic, Wood frame off the ground with old style window that leak like a sift, and the Rheem hot air heating system is a 14.9 KW straight electric heat only which my father installed in the late 1950's and me as the help. When we was checking the system out we found the 5 extra KW heat was out and it took a long time to pull the house down like 2 or 3 hours at 30F outdoor temp.s. and then we got the replacement 5 KW heater element and put in it the next day and it pull the house from 50F up to 70F indoor temp in a little over 1 hour with a 30F something outdoor temp. . If he would have insullated it. We would not need the other 5 KW heat at all. We live in Louisiana where Electric and Nat. Gas prices are not too bad. The fellow that live there before him said his electric bill during the winter would not get over $200.00 a month at the very cold times and this house is all electric. Also during the Summer the highest electric bill would be about $250.00 or so.
So this was why i was getting a little bold on saying it should take care of it.
TURTLE
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Hello group.. Thanks to all for the info, both positive and negative. First, the reason we have AHS for my folks is they are on a fixed income. If they had a catastrophic failure of something like an AC unit would seriously cripple their finances. I have helped them with as much as I can possibly afford. I do understand your points about second rate service from them. It didn't used to be this way but sure has become evident in the last few years. This service call is a perfect example given the first guy didn't see that one breaker had nothing connected to it! As some had noticed by the model number, it is a 14kv furnace. BUT, after looking it over it has become evident that the problem lies in the fact it is not hooked up properly. Upon removing the inspection panel my folks discovered that one of the two built in breakers is not even hooked up. Either the feed wire is not heavy enough to carry the entire load of both circuits so the bozo installed just hooked up the larger of the two, or sometime down the line someone got in there and messed with it. I was looking at the product literature and from what I see, given the distance from the circuit panel it would take either 4 or 6 guage wire to supply the furnace on a single circuit on a 90 amp. Mom says there is one, 60 amp breaker to the unit so my guess is they didn't run enough power to it. The house is less than four years old. Only caviat is, the house was a bank repo so we have no information on it's history and had to buy it as-is.. My best guess it was a lower priced house but it does seem to be built solidly. It has nice, double pane windows and all the doors are very good insulated doors and they seal properly. In the attic, the insulation is a white fluffy blown in matter and is about 12-14" thick in most places. Finding the rafters to tranverse across the attic is tricky. We have a message into the only local RUUD dealer in the Austin TX area but have not heard back from him as of yet. We are bypassing AHS on this one, plus the last guy said he is going to report to AHS that the unit is wired incorrectly so they will probably disqualify the unit for future repairs. My best guess is we are going to have to hire an electrican to run a new feed into the furnace closet to supply the other strips. Funny too, even when we had really cold weather last month (down into the low 20's which is not normal for central Texas) the thing still kept the house at 73 even though it ran a lot. Thanks Turtle for posting that recall notice. I am going to check that Saturday when I can get out to their house. I doubt there unit will fall in that as their house was built much later than the dates on that recall but who know's they may have had an old one sitting around. Thanks again to all and hopefully we can get this straightened out properly without breaking the bank. John
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Turtle I was not questioning or doughting you. You are always right on with Hvac and advise.
I just asked if it could be lack of insulation.
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This is Turtle.
No on Later post he said it had 12 to 14 inches of blown in fiberglass insulation. Also he had seen it was running on 10KW elements and not running full power at 15 KW. The thing has a 60 amp breaker and it will not carry a 15KW electric heat element. You would need atleast a 80 amp breaker to carry a 15 KW electric heat furnace.
TURTLE
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Do the math! Compare what the AHS rates are, your folks can probably replace their HVAC system every few years for what they charge. Tell your folks to put the money they spend on AHS in a savings account set aside just for home repairs. In a while they will have a fair amount of extra cash! Think about it! AHS is doing it to make money. They are betting that your parents will pay them more money than will get spent on repairs. The big plus is your folks will be able to choose who repairs their equipment, instead of some hack that will work for the chicken feed that AHS pays! Greg
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'Upon removing the inspection panel my folks discovered that one of the two built in breakers is not even hooked up. '
Had one exactly like this 2 weeks ago. It was a 14 kw and only 10 kw was being energized because the one breaker in Furnace wasnt hooked up.
'Mom says there is one, 60 amp breaker to the unit so my guess is they didn't run enough power to it'
I think you are correct. A 14 kw. furnace should pull right around 56 amps at 240 v. with motor running. Thats pretty close to a 60 amp breaker.
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More proof that Davey has no clue! Better check your math, and your code book Davey! 14KW comes out to over 58 amps @ 240 volt, no way you are going to run it on a 60 amp breaker! You will be looking for a 75 amp breaker. Most electric heat units I have seen will split the load, 10 KW at a time. So usually you will see two beakers, in this case probably a 60 amp and a 25 or 30 amp breaker. If it is a 60 amp breaker it is probably a 10KW heat bank, or someone skipped running the wire and breaker for the extra 4KW. Greg
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'More proof that Davey has no clue! Better check your math, and your code book Davey! 14KW comes out to over 58 amps @ 240 volt'
Hi Greg, Dont think we have every talked before. Are you a typical Antagonistic person in the Hvac Trade who likes to spread sadness and discontent like Bubba ?! Here is my reference again to amperage on a 14 kw furnace -- notice the word :"AROUND" . Please dont be a typical Jerk , as we need people in this Trade that arent , so HO's adopt a better impression of our Trade. Thanks much ! :
'A 14 kw. furnace should pull right around 56 amps at 240 v. with motor running. Thats pretty close to a 60 amp breaker.
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Am I a typical antagonistic person in the HVAC trade? No I don't believe so. It just when I see someone posting wrong information I like to see that it gets corrected. If you fit that situation, so be it. No where will codes allow you to put a even 56 amp load on a 60 amp breaker, using you numbers. If you want pretty close, heck a 50 amp breaker is pretty close too, but in reality a 75 or 80 amp breaker would be required for a 56-58 amp load. Pretty common knowledge. Give correct information, and my bet is you will be left alone. As long as you keep posting wrong information you will get flamed, simple as that. Greg
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Dave knows no better heck a 80 % furnace is close to a 90% in Daves mind, He thinks Goodman is as good as the rest , just cheaper, Right Dave.
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Ummm.....Davey....how is that possible? Explain in detail so that we that know can laugh like never before.
So..you got 10kW out of a strip that WASNT 10kw.....amazing...

LOL....you dont know a thing do you....
Try 58 amps and a 75-80 amp breaker. Also...how can a unit, that used induction style elements that wrap around the backside of the blower be stainless steel? Post a model number or admit you are blowing smoke up the asses of those that do not know better.
You sir, are no more a tech than I am the president. You are nothing but a danger to anyone that even considers you otherwise.
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