Thanks. I knew about the 2 small appliance circuit requirements, but the
dedicated fridge circuit requirement was the one that stumped me. I like
the idea of a dedicated fridge circuit requirement and I always try to do
that anyway since I think it is a good idea.
On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 08:02:43 -0800 (PST), bob_villa
I do think this GFCI thing seems to be out of control.
It made sense to have GFCI on the small appliance circuits since most
of them do not use grounded plugs but the dishwasher and fridge have
grounded cases. The same is true of washers and dryers and the washing
machine receptacle is required to be GFCI now too.
Can the dryer be far behind? If not, why not?
In Aus there are of course 230 volt GFCIs but new houses have one GFCI
in the main board. My house is 26 years old and has a 3 phase GFCI
covering everything including the AirCon.
The only time it has tripped in the 12 years I have been here there was
a device failure or a wet indoor GPO* that was outside in the rain. 3
times in all.
I fail to understand the comments about starting 2 devices (fridges
because GFCIs are not meant to care about load, just leakage to ground.
GPO = General Purpose Outlet. 3 pin socket.
By the rules ALL GPOs are 3 pin GROUNDED and have been the same design
since about 1935 although Ground was not required in some dry
situations untill about 1965?.
On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 8:08:31 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:
The issue about two refrigerators starting at the same time
was with regard to them being on the same circuit and exceeding
the circuit trip capacity. I think there is general agreement
that for typical residential fridge/freezer in at least the last couple
of decades that isn't a problem.
It's interesting that you just have one main GFCI. Two immediate
things come to mind:
1 - Sounds good because then it protects all the circuits
2 - Sounds bad, because when some outside circuit trips from
something getting wet in the middle of the night, out goes all your
lights, heat, etc. And if the place is unoccupied and it's freezing,
you don't get back in time, some really bad things could happen.
Or similar with fridges in summer. With the main tripped/tripping,
it must be a bitch to isolate and identify the actual problem.
Especially if it's an intermittent thing that could take weeks
New fridges dont last like the old ones did.
my 1952 fridge gor replaced in 1996 because we were remodeling the kitchen.
my 1996 new fridge died in 2014, and was replaced, it just quit working.
true they use less electric/
Another thing, I rewired a kitchen totally, had the GFCIs in a easy to reach location, feeding outlets where they needed to be.....
theres zero reason to put them in the basement!
On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 8:58:21 PM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
The reason they require them for the basement is likely similar to why
they are required outdoors. Typical basement floor is somewhat damp
concrete, also basements are where people then to have water problems,
use shop vacs to vacuum up water, etc. Using a power tool, vac, whatever
on a basement floor probably isn't too much different than outside.
Your RCDs trip at 30ma.
A US GFCI trips at 5.
An AFCI trips with 30a of ground leakage as does a GFPE device(Ground
Fault for the Protection of Equipment.)
Receptacles have been available in 3 pin in the US since at least the
late 40s and required in the code in the 1962 code cycle.
Only have one fridge but I think 2 fridges was brought into theGFCI
discussion. GFCIs do not trip on over load.
Has worked well for me
All you say is true but this is SYDNEY Aus and there never has been a
frozen pipe since maybe the last Ice Age.
I think our houses are smaller or have less circuits so the last trip I
had to locate (rain in an extension cord)I just pulled all the
individual breakers and then put thenm back till I got a trip, then
walked that cct till I found something unusual.
Turns out Daughter had used socket in rain water pump enclosure for a
tool then went home without replacing lid of enclosure. :-Z
I guess that is why the whole house RCD never caught on here. Nobody
wants to lose the whole house just because someone left a Receptacle
That could really be ugly if you were on "holiday" for a couple weeks.
Come home, the sump pump has failed and you have water everywhere, the
fridge stopped so you have a few hundred dollars worth of spoiled food
and your pool is green.
I prefer the protection to be as close to the failure as possible. It
makes it easier to figure out what went wrong and you isolate the
failure to a part of one circuit.
email@example.com laid this down on his screen :
I cant argue with that, It is just the way it is and it has worked
quite well for us.
There is no sump pump, in fact there is no basement, there is no
furnace, the supermarket is only a mile away so the freezer is not
heavily loaded and as I said before it has never frozen over in
Seems life is a little simpler here but we are happy.
We do have to put up with all the bans on Incandescents etc.
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