NEC revisions. Why...?

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On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 10:35:28 PM UTC-6, Robert Green wrote:

Thanks Mr. Green!
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In wrote:

Thanks. I knew about the 2 small appliance circuit requirements, but the dedicated fridge circuit requirement was the one that stumped me. I like the idea of a dedicated fridge circuit requirement and I always try to do that anyway since I think it is a good idea.
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You are not required to have a dedicated fridge circuit, it can be on one of the 20a small appliance circuits but it does allow a 15a circuit for the fridge(s).
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 08:02:43 -0800 (PST), bob_villa

I do think this GFCI thing seems to be out of control. It made sense to have GFCI on the small appliance circuits since most of them do not use grounded plugs but the dishwasher and fridge have grounded cases. The same is true of washers and dryers and the washing machine receptacle is required to be GFCI now too. Can the dryer be far behind? If not, why not?
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On 1/25/2015 11:53 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 12:03:30 -0500, FrozenNorth

They don't have a 240v GFCI receptacle (that I have seen) but they do have 120/240 GFCI breakers. They are required on spas and pool pumps .
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com brought next idea :

In Aus there are of course 230 volt GFCIs but new houses have one GFCI in the main board. My house is 26 years old and has a 3 phase GFCI covering everything including the AirCon. The only time it has tripped in the 12 years I have been here there was a device failure or a wet indoor GPO* that was outside in the rain. 3 times in all.
I fail to understand the comments about starting 2 devices (fridges etc) because GFCIs are not meant to care about load, just leakage to ground.
GPO = General Purpose Outlet. 3 pin socket. By the rules ALL GPOs are 3 pin GROUNDED and have been the same design since about 1935 although Ground was not required in some dry situations untill about 1965?.
--
John G Sydney.

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On 1/25/2015 8:08 PM, John G wrote:

In a perfect world, you are right. I've seen them trip for unknown reasons though.
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On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 8:08:31 PM UTC-5, John G wrote:

The issue about two refrigerators starting at the same time was with regard to them being on the same circuit and exceeding the circuit trip capacity. I think there is general agreement that for typical residential fridge/freezer in at least the last couple of decades that isn't a problem.
It's interesting that you just have one main GFCI. Two immediate things come to mind:
1 - Sounds good because then it protects all the circuits
2 - Sounds bad, because when some outside circuit trips from something getting wet in the middle of the night, out goes all your lights, heat, etc. And if the place is unoccupied and it's freezing, you don't get back in time, some really bad things could happen. Or similar with fridges in summer. With the main tripped/tripping, it must be a bitch to isolate and identify the actual problem. Especially if it's an intermittent thing that could take weeks to investigate.
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New fridges dont last like the old ones did.
my 1952 fridge gor replaced in 1996 because we were remodeling the kitchen.
my 1996 new fridge died in 2014, and was replaced, it just quit working.
true they use less electric/
Another thing, I rewired a kitchen totally, had the GFCIs in a easy to reach location, feeding outlets where they needed to be.....
theres zero reason to put them in the basement!
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On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 8:58:21 PM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:

The reason they require them for the basement is likely similar to why they are required outdoors. Typical basement floor is somewhat damp concrete, also basements are where people then to have water problems, use shop vacs to vacuum up water, etc. Using a power tool, vac, whatever on a basement floor probably isn't too much different than outside.
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Your RCDs trip at 30ma. A US GFCI trips at 5. An AFCI trips with 30a of ground leakage as does a GFPE device(Ground Fault for the Protection of Equipment.)
Receptacles have been available in 3 pin in the US since at least the late 40s and required in the code in the 1962 code cycle.
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on 27/01/2015, trader_4 supposed :

discussion. GFCIs do not trip on over load.

frozen pipe since maybe the last Ice Age.

had to locate (rain in an extension cord)I just pulled all the individual breakers and then put thenm back till I got a trip, then walked that cct till I found something unusual. Turns out Daughter had used socket in rain water pump enclosure for a tool then went home without replacing lid of enclosure. :-Z
--
John G Sydney.

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I guess that is why the whole house RCD never caught on here. Nobody wants to lose the whole house just because someone left a Receptacle cover open. That could really be ugly if you were on "holiday" for a couple weeks. Come home, the sump pump has failed and you have water everywhere, the fridge stopped so you have a few hundred dollars worth of spoiled food and your pool is green.
I prefer the protection to be as close to the failure as possible. It makes it easier to figure out what went wrong and you isolate the failure to a part of one circuit.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com laid this down on his screen :

I cant argue with that, It is just the way it is and it has worked quite well for us. There is no sump pump, in fact there is no basement, there is no furnace, the supermarket is only a mile away so the freezer is not heavily loaded and as I said before it has never frozen over in Sydney:-) Seems life is a little simpler here but we are happy.
We do have to put up with all the bans on Incandescents etc.
--
John G Sydney.

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I imagine you have a similar climate to SW Florida then. We do tend to shop in bulk tho and it is not unusual to have a freezer full of food.
)

That was an oversold threat. They banned 120v 60-100 watt A-19s but you can still buy 130 volt bulbs in any size you want. Since my mains power is 124 anyway they are actually better for me.
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