NEC revisions. Why...?

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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 13:38:56 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

The only places where that is true is the kitchen and bathrooms where you have special requirements for receptacle circuits that have "no other outlets" and that is not even true in a bathroom if the circuit only serves one bathroom.. (the receptacles can be on the same circuit as the lights and fan in that case)

That is better than the 2002 era AFCI assuming new stock but I think the newer ones are better than that. Is it "CH CAFCI" model? We are on about V2.2 on the AFCI with two main groups, the original and the "combination" type (series and parallel fault) There are incremental improvements within those groups as technology got better.
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 15:21:37 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

I am still waiting to see someone tell me where it says refrigerators in the kitchen need to be on a GFCI. (in a dwelling) The 2014 did add the dishwasher to the list and the whole kitchen is on the AFCI list..
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A GFCI behind a fridge is illegal in 2011 NEC and beyond. They must be "readily accessible" (without having to "climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.")
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On 1/23/2015 11:21 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Thanks for the clarification.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com presented the following explanation :

Australia as seperate receptacle and lighting circuits almost exclusively.

--
John G Sydney.

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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 21:33:56 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

In a dwelling kitchen, they either have to be on a dedicated "refrigeration equipment circuit" or on one of the "small appliance" circuits. You are not supposed to just grab any general lighting circuit although in an older house it may have happened. Mine is on with the bathroom lights (circa 1963) and that used to also be the bathroom receptacles until I upgraded the wiring and added a separate bathroom receptacle circuit.
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This isn't Australia. We require boxes behind the wall ;-)
http://lot271.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/img_2521.jpg
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The only place it has to be on a GFCI is in a garage, basement, unfinished utility room or outside. (dwellings) All 120v receptacles in a commercial kitchen need to be GFCI tho
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com pretended :

What are you trying to say? And where is the picture from? Not australia I will bet.
We use seperate circuits from the main board for lighting and General purpose outlets.
--
John G Sydney.

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http://www.electrical-contractor.net/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/212232/Australia_wall_boxes_not_requi.html#Post212232
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:04:22 -0800 (PST), John G

Did you remove "located in areas other than kitchens" or did NFPA?
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In wrote:

Interesting. I didn't know that -- not that I claim to know all of the codes. But, when I was re-doing kitchens in places that I own (a few years ago), I remember thinking that the books and other information that I had (not the NEC) seemed to be a little vague about the actual requirements for a refrigerator.
Did the code requirements recently change to the above, or have they been that way for years and I just didn't know it?
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In wrote:

More news that I never knew about -- until now! Thanks for posting that.
So, for a residential kitchen fridge: a dedicated refrigeration circuit; on a GFCI; and the GFCI cannot be behind the fridge.
Did I get that right?
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In wrote:

Oops, that changes another post that I just wrote above.
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In

Oops, I see that I got that wrong after reading another of your posts where you wrote:
"I am still waiting to see someone tell me where it says refrigerators in the kitchen need to be on a GFCI. (in a dwelling) The 2014 did add the dishwasher to the list and the whole kitchen is on the AFCI list."
So, a residential fridge in the kitchen does not need to be on a GFCI.
I wish you people would make my mind up :-)
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*The receptacle for the refrigerator only needs to be GFCI protected if it is within six feet of the sink. As someone pointed out, it needs to be acc essible for testing purposes. If you want it to be dedicated, you could pu t a faceless GFCI somewhere accessible to protect the refrigerator outlet. It does require AFCI protection as well.
The wording was changed in the 2014 code. The decriptive terms were delete d and the only word left is "Sinks". Any outlet within six feet of a sink, including commercial installations, requires GFCI protection.
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On 01/24/2015 06:44 PM, John G wrote:

Are there breakers that are both GFCI and AFCI?
Perce
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On 1/24/2015 8:27 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Yes (Amazon.com product link shortened)
As well as others
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...everyone blew-over my question? 'Thinking'~maybe they all have me kill-filed~ Such is life in mediocrity.
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What question? About icemakers and the 6 foot rule? I think John G answered that one. I'd add that most icemakers I've seen are plumbed with plastic tubing which would tend, IMHO, to mitigate any shock hazard.
--
Bobby G.



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